Looking for the best in shop table saw I can buy. I only want to buy one saw.

[Joe Jensen]

There is a really nice looking Felder K700 51" sliding table saw on ebay. Bid at $3100 with a day to go.

[Kent A Bathurst]

What kind of Kool-Aid comes with that fancy SS table saw?

Denny - reference to jim jones cult and the kool-aid they drank in blind obedience.

Also - see where Shanny just retired - there's another jersey number for the rafters at the Joe, eh?

[Joe Mioux]

What kind of Kool-Aid comes with that fancy SS table saw?

I don't drink (SS) Kool-Aid.

just take a pragmatic approach a tool's capabilities, my capabilities and look at the whole picture of this hobby. Part of the hobby is outfitting a shop with cool tools. -- its all part of the fun.

[Dan Roberts]

Dear Nick

I have been a professional guitarmaker for well over 20 years. I started with Flatiron Banjo and Mandolin Co. Then worked my way up to rear plant production manager at Gibson where I was in charge of everything from resaw and parts production to handing the finish department a complete white wood guitar. Then for 17 years was production manager, archtop builder, repairman and designer for Santa Cruz Guitar Company. I currently work for myself building. Now first off I am an acoustic guitar builder, but I've had a series of apprentices from Sweden and Norway who came to my shop to do apprenticeships and built electrics as well as acoustics under my tutelage as well as on their own.

I have a simple Delta Contractors saw with a couple good blades, and a link belt and 2 hp Baldor motor I bought. It is fabulous for anything a guitarmaker needs to do. Truly any decent tablesaw will do for a guitarmaker... we don't do a lot of straight lines do we? LOL.

Anyway... as many other members say, your jointer is your friend for a guitarmaker. I have seen really good guitarmakers completely unable to replace the blades in a jointer and then get it set up properly to get a perfect glue joint. This may be part of the solution.

Most of what I have to say has already been said but there are a few perspectives I can offer as a longtime guitarmaker that may offer you a good perspective.

People who buy guitars are often like packrats. They are attracted to very very shiny things. LOL. No offense intended. They like to be able to put their makeup on or adjust their tie in the reflection in your lacquer. If your joints aren't perfect the lacquer or whatever finish you use will sink down and really point out your failures. Also guitarmakers use some of the most spectacular woods available, wildly figured Koa, figured Brazilian Rosewood, Flamed european maple, quilted mahogany and bigleaf maple etc. To properly joint these woods, a helical head is really nice. They shear as they cut and that means you get less or no chipout on highly figured woods. If you have a good jointer think about getting a Byrd helical head made for your jointer. Spend some of what you would have on the high dollar tablesaw and get that $400.00 head. Put it in yourself. You will learn a lot. Then set the outfeed table slightly lower than the head. You will have a short snipe at the end of the cut. Bring up the rear table little by little and take test cuts. The snipe will get longer... moving in length towards the center of the board. If you are doing a bookmatch, do them both at once. When you hold them up to the light you will find that whatever imperfections you have are doubled this way and you can really dial it in. Eventually you will get a perfect joint. If you start to get a "sprung" joint meaning you see light in the middle you've gone too far. Fettling a piece of equipment till it works perfectly will help you gain the skill you will need to be a great guitarmaker.

You will need a tablesaw... you just don't need a really expensive one, and a jointer and the bandsaw will be the most used pieces of equipment in your guitarshop almost gauranteed. With a good 12" disc/ 6X48" sander a quick 3rd place. Learning good hand tool skills is essential to being a good woodworker of any kind. I worked with a Japanese temple builder for a while in the Santa Cruz mountains, and I felttled his machinery in exchange for all the help I got from him. It was a great trade for both of us. If you try this and it doesn't work feel free to give me a call for help. (406)431-9011. Good luck!

dan

[John Coloccia]

I'll just add one more tool to the list of really great guitar building tools. Wagner Saf-T Planer. You wouldn't believe how useful this thing is for operations such as:

-planing headstock taper
-planing taper on back of the neck
-rough thicknessing sides
-quickly getting a parallel surface (i.e. get the bottom of the heel nice and flat relative to the finger board)
-establishing an even thickness at the edge of an arched top and back (learned that one from Benedetto's videos....GREAT videos, btw)
-making radius sanding blocks (pass the block through with the drill press bed at an angle)

I can probably think of more

Dan: thanks for the tip on the helical heads. I've been hesitating to buy one because I wasn't sure if it would help enough with figured woods to be worth it, or if I'd still have to follow up with a hand plane to get it perfect. Right now, I end up doing a little touch up with a jointer plane on practically every top/back to get what I'd consider an instrument quality joint. Can you go right from jointer to glue up most of the time with the helical head?

[Darrin Davis]

I've used many cabinet saws and now that I have a sawstop I cannot imagine using any other. Forget the stopping capabilities of the saw, I would buy it just for the quality of the machine. It's a giant. the trunions on the machine make my old Delta cabinet saw seem cheap. Too bad they don't make it without the stop capabilities for those who are not interested in that part of the saw. They just want a good quality cabinet saw.

[Vic Damone]

I can hold down some simple key changes but I'm not a Guitarist. My son is and there are many guitars in our home. During a visit to Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz I asked to play one of Richard Hoover/Dan Roberts' f holed arch tops. As a non player let me just say Holly Moley, very nice!

I am/was an Upright Bass player and I'm down to two instruments. I borrowed one of Mr. Schnitzer's LaScala Hybrids from a friend while in Chicago for a four day stint. Aside from it being the loudest and most comfortable instrument I've ever played, the piz muah between F and Ab on the E string was simply stunning. I can't wait to try a fully carved piece.

Your very fortunate to have been responded by two incredibly gifted instrument builders. IMO the selection of material, construction technique and experience required to produce instruments at this level is rare. An instrument that speaks with its own singular voice is the highest order of the use of wood. I'm not talking about a vintage Fender made with a router.

Dan Roberts and Arnold Schnitzer are two masters at their craft. I've never meet them personally but I know and have touched their work and I'm literally blown away that they even frequent this site.

We pay for these instruments but they're only ours for a little while, as we leave, they play on.

[Dan Roberts]

Well that is certainly a wonderful testimonial! Thanks and I'm glad you enjoyed that archtop! AS far as the helical heads go, on archtops I always had to use a handplane to get the joint perfect before I got my General helical head jointer. The byrd head has even more shear angle to it... General even offers the Byrd head as an option now, but they didn't when I got mine. Even with the General helical head though if I am careful I can go directly to a glue joint now without handplaning, and if I am not careful to keep a centerline reference marked on the endgrain I can loose the centerline very easily. Of course I can find it with a bit of time but I've had many people ask if I'm using one piece tops. Backs are easier to tell since the bookmatch is much more obvious (except mahogany can be tough to tell as well.) I highly recommend it and if you already have a decent jointer I'd just get the byrd head.

Of course I had missed that part where you explained that you have a Crescent with the tables out of parallel, but usually that can be shimmed to be near perfect again. Sometimes just taking it apart and checking the dovetail is enough... burrs or other issues can often be removed without too much trouble. If the casting has warped that's a tougher problem but not likely on that machine either. Good luck!

[Arnold E Schnitzer]

I just want to say that my new PM 2000 arrived today, and I can't imagine ever needing a better tablesaw. At $1960 delivered, I think it was a steal. As far as making the best possible joints, I believe a saw is just the beginning. I go from there to the jointer, to a jointer plane, then chalk-fit with a small block plane and scrapers until perfect. Of course I am making joints that are about 4' long and 2" thick, and the wood is usually wedge cut, so it is not your ordinary glue-up. Vic, thanks for the kind words. BTW, did you know I used to back up the actual Vic Damone?

[Dan Roberts]

Sounds like a great saw Arnold. We had a powermatic at Gibson Montana Division and it was a great saw. I'm piqued now I am going to go see your website if I can find it and see what you do! Good luck with your Powermatic!

--d

[Vic Damone]

I just want to say that my new PM 2000 arrived today, and I can't imagine ever needing a better tablesaw. At $1960 delivered, I think it was a steal. As far as making the best possible joints, I believe a saw is just the beginning. I go from there to the jointer, to a jointer plane, then chalk-fit with a small block plane and scrapers until perfect. Of course I am making joints that are about 4' long and 2" thick, and the wood is usually wedge cut, so it is not your ordinary glue-up. Vic, thanks for the kind words. BTW, did you know I used to back up the actual Vic Damone?

Did you record with him? Or with anybody, I'd like to hear your playing. Congratulations on the new tool.

[John Harden]

I just want to say that my new PM 2000 arrived today, and I can't imagine ever needing a better tablesaw. At $1960 delivered, I think it was a steal. As far as making the best possible joints, I believe a saw is just the beginning. I go from there to the jointer, to a jointer plane, then chalk-fit with a small block plane and scrapers until perfect. Of course I am making joints that are about 4' long and 2" thick, and the wood is usually wedge cut, so it is not your ordinary glue-up. Vic, thanks for the kind words. BTW, did you know I used to back up the actual Vic Damone?

As an owner of a Euro slider, I second this opinion. A slider will make an amazingly clean straight line rip that can be used for a glue joint, but even still, if you want the best joint you can get, you need to pick up a jointer plane.

We all have our preferences in table saws, jointers, etc., but one truth is that for final fitting of many joints, you need to break out the hand tools.

I have a LN #7 and 7 1/2 and use them both quite a lot. A low angle jack works well too for those smaller boards. I think that's actually my favorite hand plane aside from a block.

Regards,

John

[Joe Pack]

The 3hp SawStop is more than enough for 8/4 work. Even dense exotics do not slow it down. 5hp would be great, but, in my simple opinion, not necessary unless it would be run hours each day. Not worth the added expense.

Pair this with an Incra fence system and repeatable precision cutting is a breeze.

One humble opinion.


(My wife knew she married 'Mr. Right,' but she didn't know his first name was Always!)

[Vic Damone]

The 3hp SawStop is more than enough for 8/4 work. Even dense exotics do not slow it down. 5hp would be great, but, in my simple opinion, not necessary unless it would be run hours each day. Not worth the added expense.

Pair this with an Incra fence system and repeatable precision cutting is a breeze.

One humble opinion.


(My wife knew she married 'Mr. Right,' but she didn't know his first name was Always!)

+1
I'd like to replace my contractor saw with one of these someday. The dust collection looks excellent, it's smaller, and the mobil base seems like it would work well. I have an Incra fence and it is terrific. Easily zeroed to blade changes, no more knuckle tapping, and the tape measure is history, a real time saver.

[Tim Allaire]

TS75, CT22 and MTF3 . nough, said.