Stupid questions about lateral adjuster on Bailey types

[Zach England]

Ok, I apologize for bringing up something that is surely covered ad nauseam here and elsewhere, but I am not having luck with my searches. I recently got my first "old" plane--a number 4 that I believe is a type 9 from the 1930s (more on that later). It has a LN iron and chip breaker and is overall in apparently very good condition. My problem is with the lateral adjuster. The iron is perfectly square, but I have to move the lateral adjuster nearly 1/2 inch to get the iron square to the mouth Is this ok? It is kind of causing an OCD crisis for me and also makes it difficult to gauge the cut by looking at the sides of the plane since the blade is about 1/16 to one side.. I loosened the screws holding the frog in place and it has a little bit of play from side to side, but not much. Where do you think my problem is?

Thanks. I am re-finishing the tote and knob now, but can take some pictures when the lacquer is dry and I can put it back together.

[Bob Barkto]

Several things can cause this, sometimes in combination.

If the frog is canted or angled left or right.

If the sole, the frog bed and frog base are not parallel/co-planar the blade will sit at an angle.

If the face of the frog isn't machined square to the base of the frog.
Sometimes it's just a burr or bit of rough machining that causes symptoms of any of the above.

The lever might be bent or malformed or worn.
I've seen some planes that have the stamped steel adjuster (no wheel that fits in the blade groove) where someone has filed or ground them to fit a blade with a narrow slot and they took all the material from one side. Check for asymmetry there.

[Joe Close]

I have a 10 year old or so Bailey, had similar problem, factory iron and chip breaker though. Adjusting the frog so it sat more on the correct plane fixed/reduced the problem. Not sure if it was just a frog alignment issue, or a bedding issue. I use the plane as a hogging plane, so I do not worry too much about the details. Tweaking the frog alignment on the bed fixed it and I moved on.
Good luck!

[Jim Koepke]

Ok, I apologize for bringing up something that is surely covered ad nauseam here and elsewhere, but I am not having suckles with my searches. I recently got my first "old" plane--a number 4 that I believe is a type 9 from the 1930s (more on that later). It has a LN iron and chip breaker and is overall in apparently very good condition. My problem is with the lateral adjuster. The iron is perfectly square, but I have to move the lateral adjuster nearly 1/2 inch to get the iron square to the mouth Is this ok? It is kind of causing an OCD crisis for me and also makes it difficult to gauge the cut by looking at the sides of the plane since the blade is about 1/16 to one side.. I loosened the screws holding the frog in place and it has a little bit of play from side to side, but not much. Where do you think my problem is?

Thanks. I am re-finishing the tote and knob now, but can take some pictures when the lacquer is dry and I can put it back together.

Pictures will help with a few things. I am curious, why do you think the plane is a type 9? If it is a type 9, it is older than the 1930's

My sympathies are with you on the lateral adjustment and OCD. I have to have mine as centered as can be. Moving the frog side to side is not the answer. The frog needs rotation. If reasonable rotation does not correct the problem, then you may have a misaligned or sloping seat for the frog or a sloping base on the frog itself.

A small square can be of help in this cause. Check the back of the mouth for square. Hold the square to the side of and under the plane while looking through the mouth from the top. is the front of the frog square?

Remember, the blade is being held in three dimensions. The normal adjustments of the frog only allow movement in two. Working that third dimension requires metal removal. Very careful metal removal.

The worst case scenario would be if you have a mismatched frog and base. There are many that can be mixed and matched, there are a lot that can't.

If you look in the Neanderthal wisdom/FAQs thread at the top of the Neanderthal Haven conference you will find articles by Bob Smalser about rehabilitating planes and even one he wrote on how to make a steeper angled frog.

I wrote one on fettling old metal planes that may help with a little information on the frog fettling.

Hope this helps,

jim

[Zach England]

Ok, thanks for the suggestions. I will re-assemble and play with the frog a bit when I get home tonight. The thought on the date had to do with the orange paint around the stanley logo on the iron cap and the positioning of a couple markings on the bed. I can't find the link I had read it from at the moment. I know there are some foundry markings on the frog that can give a more accurate dating, so I will re-visit that while I have it apart.

On a similar note, what kind of wood were the knobs/totes made of if not rosewood? It LOOKS like walnut, but doesn't feel or smell like walnut. The knob had been painted at some point but the tote had not. My first thought was that they were mis-matched but the wood looks the same to me. It really is pretty wood, but the lacquer made it look almost black. That was disappointing. Normally I'd appreciate the patina and wabi-sabi of this plane, but my (few) others are Veritas and LN, and next to those this guy just looks old and tired. Maybe the newer planes will catch up in 50-75 years?

[James Scheffler]

Ok, I apologize for bringing up something that is surely covered ad nauseam here and elsewhere, but I am not having luck with my searches. I recently got my first "old" plane--a number 4 that I believe is a type 9 from the 1930s (more on that later). It has a LN iron and chip breaker and is overall in apparently very good condition. My problem is with the lateral adjuster. The iron is perfectly square, but I have to move the lateral adjuster nearly 1/2 inch to get the iron square to the mouth Is this ok? It is kind of causing an OCD crisis for me and also makes it difficult to gauge the cut by looking at the sides of the plane since the blade is about 1/16 to one side.. I loosened the screws holding the frog in place and it has a little bit of play from side to side, but not much. Where do you think my problem is?

Thanks. I am re-finishing the tote and knob now, but can take some pictures when the lacquer is dry and I can put it back together.

This problem is not unusual in old planes. The advise previously posted should help. However, even if it's not perfect, the plane should function ok as long as the blade can project an equal amount across its width. (And it sounds like that is already possible given the current condition of the plane). The blade will have a slight skew, but you will still be able to get consistent shavings.

Jim

[Sean Hughto]

I don't think of that as a problem, per se. That's what lateral adjustment levers are for. Sometimes you might want to make one side more aggressive than the other, but typically, it is so that you can easily dial in a shaving that starts in the center of the ever-so-slightly cambered blade.

Worrying about where the lever ends up is sort of like worrying about which thread the depth adjuster is resting on ... if the plane works well, it's all good.

[glenn bradley]

As long as I can adjust the blade I don't pay much attention to where the lever is. Now, if I hit one extreme or the other and the blade still wasn't where I wanted it . . . Then I'd crack open the OCD toolbox.

[Zach England]

You "don't worry about it" guys sound like the types who don't alphabetize your WWing books...

[Terry Beadle]

I have a couple old planes whose lateral adjustors do not work well too. I use my plane tapping hammer to adjust them. It's more accurate for very small setting adjustments. Bigger whack..equals bigger adjustment..

Also make sure one side of the plane blade is smooth so that when you check for square edge the square gets a reliable repeatable datum. On the LN blade you probably don't have that issue.

If the blade is still out of square with the body, then you may have to sharpen the blade out of square to match.

Hope this helps.

[James Scheffler]

You "don't worry about it" guys sound like the types who don't alphabetize your WWing books...

You're correct. I don't alphabetize any books, much less WWing ones. (I got plenty of alphabetizing in during a summer job at a library many years ago.)

Well... then again, I do alphabetize my CDs. However, I no longer put the ones by a given artist in chronological order.

But I digress. If all else fails, you could remove the lateral adjustment lever entirely, and do the lateral adjustment with light hammer taps. Sometimes I need to do that anyway after getting it close with the lever.

Jim