Canadians: tell us about your health care system

[Jon Grider]

I'm interested in what you Canadian Creekers think about your health care system. This topic generates much acrimony from both political sides here and I'd just like to here from those who actually live and use Canada's health care to tell me generally how you like it, and in your real life experiences, the pros and cons of government supplied care.
I'm asking that this not turn into an American liberal/conservative debate, let's just hear what our northern neighbors have to say.
I hope this doesn't cross any forum rules, moderator, feel free to delete if it does.

[Paul Ryan]

I am curious as well. When ever the health care debate comes up around here all I here from the other side is how BAD canadians have it. They wait in lines, cannot get proper care because the back log in the system, blah blah blah. Tells us how it is. What is good, and what needs improving.

[Rod Sheridan]

Well, here goes the condensed version

- I have a family doctor who I visit as required, same as you, I phone, get an appointment, go visit him, no out of pocket expenses.

- I have two children in their twenties, childbirth was at a hospital for both, out of pocket costs were about $20 to $30. The youngest had to stay a few days extra due to some complications.

- Diann (wife) had her appendix removed about 15 years ago, just before she left for a month long motorcycle trip to Europe. Her doctor wanted it done before she went, so she had an operation two days after diagnosis.

- I had an eye injury, immediate emergency attention including some surgery, out of pocket expenses about $30.

- My Mom is in the final stages of throat cancer, when she was diagnosed a couple of years ago, she was scheduled for Chemotherapy and radiation treatment, 2 week waiting period for treatment to begin.

Mom had four weeks of treatments, only out of pocket expenses were parking.

Mom is visited by a palliative care doctor every week now, a nurse visits her once per day, and she has a personal support worker that visits to do housekeeping, laundry, meal prep etc. Out of pocket is zip.

You have probably heard of the H1N1 vaccinations, if I remember correctly we've had about 6 or 7 million doses for a population of 33 million, prioritised for those most at risk. Being a healthy adult, it will probably be another week or two until I'm able to be vaccinated. Cost zip.

I'm sure you've heard horror stories because we've seen some of the negative advertising items you have seen regarding Canada, in the USA. If it wasn't so inaccurate, we would laugh harder.

Our system isn't perfect, any system could be better. There are the occasional screw ups, anytime you have people involved, there will be failures, however there are almost no Canadians who would trade systems with our American friends.

Our outcomes are better, our life expectancy higher, and our medical costs substantially lower than yours.

I guess that once you take the profit out of the system, things get less expensive, in addition, their isn't a bias to deny coverage, since the medical benefits are well defined by the Federal government. The provinces and Territories then decide how to implement it at the local level.

I hope this helps..............Rod.

[Tim Morton]

So Rod, if you take a procedure like child birth that may run $15,000 here in the US..and you pay $30 out of your pocket...who pays the rest of the money?

[Rod Sheridan]

So Rod, if you take a procedure like child birth that may run $15,000 here in the US..and you pay $30 out of your pocket...who pays the rest of the money?

Hi Tim, funding for health care comes from the Federal government, who provide the money to the Province or Territory.

It's paid for through our taxes obviously, it's a lot less expensive than your insurance costs are in the US.

I can only surmise that the not for profit model results in lower costs....Regards, Rod.

P.S. the link below provides some info on a very complex issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada

[Jon Grider]

Thanks Rod for your first hand account. You answered my questions thoughtfully and clearly.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Rod for your first hand account. You answered my questions thoughtfully and clearly.

You're welcome, something I forgot to mention is that prescriptions are covered by the government for seniors, many people have additional coverage through their employers. My Mom is a senior, and the last time I picked up prescriptions for her I had to pay $2 or $3 dollars, maybe it's a dispensing fee from the pharmacy.

I have additional coverage through my employer for prescriptions, glasses, and some other items.

Prescription drugs are far less expensive in Canada, many Americans purchase them here. I have no idea why that is, some of the pharmaceutical companies are American, so you would think they would favour Americans over foreigners.

Drugs used in hospitals are covered as part of your hospital coverage, so there's no charges there that I'm aware of.

Regards, Rod.

[Eric Larsen]

Does Vancouver need another brew master?

[Scott Shepherd]

Rod, what do you see up there from the aspect of the system going broke? I can't find a single government run system that isn't trending towards going broke. Canada, most European countries, etc. If you look at any trend lines, they are all trending in unsustainable paces, which actually, isn't much different that what's happening with our health care costs now. From the outside, it looks like it's the same problem, just different management. Same problem, trend of cost is going the wrong way.

Do you see reports of that up there? Is that all unfounded?

Not arguing, just curious.

[paul cottingham]

Another example:

I have a massive growth in my brain that was discovered when I was 40. It has been in my head since birth. Cost for the 3 complex operations that have allowed me to live a relatively normal life: zip.

With private insurance, I am sure I would have been denied coverage as it is a pre-existing condition.

When my daughter was born, LOML got septicemia and damn near died. she was in the hospital for two weeks. Cost to us: zip.

I am very glad I live in Canada.

As for the govt. going broke because of this, certain elements have been screaming about that since the Canada health act was enacted. Hasn't happened yet. In fact, I believe the cost of health care goes up at about the same rate as inflation in Canada.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I will suggest that everyone read the Lewiston, Idaho ....Lewiston Morning Tribune article "Taking Canada's Pulse" published on Sunday 9/27/2009. In that article a physician practicing across the Snake River in Clarkston, WA.....he,Dr. Don Greggain, a native of Saskatchewan....educated there...practiced medicine in Ft. McMurray. He claims he left after having 8 patients die of things they didn't need to die of ....because they couldn't get the tests and procedures they needed.

In the article he states that the provincial government decided they needed to cut their medical expenses by 40% because it wasn't financially sustainable even in this oil rich province.

Initially elected boards controlled the decisions effecting the provinces medical system. Then the politicians got involved and the boards became appointed rather than elected and medical professionals weren't allowed to serve on the boards.

"They were literally rolling people out of the hospital onto the sidewalks and telling their families ""I hope you can take care of them at home, because we're going from 200 beds to 60 beds and can't afford to keep them' ". Greggain said.

Later even with increased spending his paitents faced higher waiting periods, delayed medical care and with the predictable impact on his patients, he moved on.

I'm sure there will be those who will say "it isn't so". I suggest that based on this article, each province runs/controls it's own medical system and therefore there might be differences.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Scott, the information I've been able to find suggests that spending is going up in step with inflation and/or our GDP.

It's still about half the cost of the American system per capita, if I remember correctly.

As another Canadian said, we've been claiming that it's been going broke for decades, however it obviously isn't.

Regards, Rod.

[Don Kondra]

As has been mentioned, health care is free but there may be a waiting period for non life threatening conditions and/or testing.

I've recently had two experiences, one good and one bad

One morning I woke up and couldn't move my hand without extreme pain. It was a week or so before my doctor could see me and a trip to the emergency clinic was an hours long waste of time.

From doctor visit to appointment for testing to confirm carpal tunnel to meeting with the surgeon to operation was a year and half. Perhaps this would have been shorter if I lived in a larger center but nobody I talked to was impressed that I made my living with my hands or offered an alternative.

Ironically it seems a half time spraying contract is what put my hand over the top but paid the bills while I couldn't work in my shop.

100% recovery by the way

My second major experience was with a thrombosed where the sun don't shine condition

Hours in the emergency clinic and then the doc's in training sent me home and told me to come back if it didn't get better, sigh..

Next day I returned, after another two hour wait and examination they called the head doctor in on a Sunday and I was on the operating table in half an hour.

An overnight stay and I escaped the next day, cost zip.

As to pills, I'm type 2 diabetic with high blood pressure, cost ~ $50/month.

Also my 85 year old mother required a three month stay in hospital last year. Cost zip. She is at home now with a privately paid live in nurse and doing just fine. A health care nurse visits once a week to examine her and give her a shot for kidney disease, cost again zip.

I have nothing but high praise for our health care workers but sometimes the wait for tests, etc. may seem long.

Cheers, Don

[Josh Reet]

I'm not canadian, but I live 15 minutes from the border and used to work for a canadian magazine shooting extreme sports photos. It was always funny to hear the comparisons between the Canadian athletes and the US ones. These guys don't make much money overall, and nobody offers them employer insurance. So very few of the US guys had their own insurance. The canadian guys would just head to the doctor any time they broke something or had a bad crash. Sure, they might have had to wait a bit for an ACL operation or some such thing, but it always got done. And in an emergency they never hesitated to head to the ER. In contrast, the US riders would put off going to the doctor as long as possible. As a result, a guy I know ended up being in the ER due to getting flesh eating disease from a dirty skatepark crash. Another guy got a nasty infection in a gash on his leg that ended up with a long hospital stay. If he had just headed to the ER when it happened and gotten some stitches, it wouldn't have been an issue. But he was afraid of the ER bill and wouldn't go. And so on and so on. At the end of the day, the US guys either got saddled with a huge bill that followed them for years. Or they just stiffed the hospital under whatever "unable to pay" provisions existed. Which, of course, shifted the cost back on the taxpayers and/or other customers in the health care system. Like I said, sure some of the canadian guys had to gimp around on crutches for a few months before their non-life threatening ACL surgery could be performed. But in the US the guys limped around on crutches for months until they could figure out a way to pay for the surgery. So the net result for this group of people ended up being the same in the oft-mentioned "you have to wait forever for non life threatening surgery" department.

Another example would have been the birth of our first child. My former editor at the canadian magazine had a baby shortly after we did, so he and I have spent time comparing notes. He, obviously has govt funded health care. I have good insurance for my family through my job. I'm very lucky in that regard. When I was hired, they told me "we don't have a retirement or 401k matching plan. Instead we decided to offer really good health coverage to our employees and their families". Works for me.

I had a $500 deductable for the birth itself (reasonable uncomplicated) and $20 copays for every visit during the pregnancy. The pregnancy itself was a bit complicated and we probably had 30 visits plus a pile of prescriptions to fill ($15/ea). So figure around $1200-1300. Not bad all in my mind. However, keep in mind that I have VERY good insurance that would cost me close to $1000 a month (this is a lowball guess) if I had to pay myself. Few of my peers have insurance at this level and because of that I have watched a few of them end up with $10,000 in bills after a tough birth when coverage ran out. In comparison, my canadian buddy and his wife had more or less the same sort of pregnancy/birth as we did in terms of office visits and problems (or lack thereof). At the end of everything, he had little to nothing out of pocket (a few prescription filling fees, as mentioned earlier) and still got benefits that we never did such as a infant care nurse who made two house calls after the birth to make sure they had their "new baby" questions answered, the baby was being cared for, and that feeding/etc was going well. We got to watch a video about not leaving your baby out in the rain and they made us promise that we had a car seat before we left the hospital. Nobody gave two sticks about us after that unless we made the effort to get hooked up with a pediatrician.

Anyway, the canadian system isn't perfect. I'm sure plenty of the horror stories are true. But from my experience, the horror stories aren't the daily reality for most canadians. Just like the horror stories of insurance companies denying transplants or other expensive care in the US isn't the norm for most of us. Both things happen both places, and people die from it. But day to day for the average person is what we should be focusing on, not the rare events that make the news or get turned into movies.

[Neal Clayton]

"They were literally rolling people out of the hospital onto the sidewalks and telling their families ""I hope you can take care of them at home, because we're going from 200 beds to 60 beds and can't afford to keep them' ". Greggain said.

Later even with increased spending his paitents faced higher waiting periods, delayed medical care and with the predictable impact on his patients, he moved on.

I'm sure there will be those who will say "it isn't so". I suggest that based on this article, each province runs/controls it's own medical system and therefore there might be differences.

yeah, all of those things happen here in the US already.

a friend of my grandmother's has live in help. kinda a drifter, guy showed up lookin for work and there was none, so this old lady put him up in the garage apartment, in exchange for cutting grass, fixing leaks, and what not. he had a ruptured appendix about a year ago, and the hospital sent him home to die, because he couldn't pay for the surgery. if he hadn't had someone to bring him to the university hospital three counties away, he would be dead.

so why am i to fear the non-profit health care for the things that the for profit health care does already?