ShopSmith Mark V yes or no?

[RON F. ANDERSON]

Well a late post for sure...

I bought a used Shopsmith about 3-4 yrs ago now very cheap...like 250 bucks... and I agree the table saw is the weakest part in the machine, not so much for power but safety issues with such a small table to work on. Newer models such as the 510 and newer yet made their tables much, much larger and thus safer to use. These machines with cost you more used. I have set my SS with a belt sander on one side and dado table saw. The machine works well for me. Considering its over 25 years old now. But, I have recently heard the company has filed chap 13. Have only a handful of employees left and are looking to reorganize. If true this could leave parts and accessories, harder to locate ect.

[Pat Germain]

I don't see how the manufacturer of the ShopSmith can stay in business. I can't search for used tools on Craigslist without seeing a dozen "SHOPSMITH!" postings. And they're not the same ad/machine.

I personally wouldn't opt for a ShopSmith. But I can see why others would like this machine. So, the bottom line is, if you want one, you might as well buy used since there sure are a lot of people trying to get rid of them.

EDIT: For giggles, I just searched for "Shopsmith" on Craigslist and found ten of them currently for sale in the Denver area alone. One says, "Price lowered!" and it appears to be a new model with the bandsaw attachment.

[Dave Lehnert]

I don't see how the manufacturer of the ShopSmith can stay in business. I can't search for used tools on Craigslist without seeing a dozen "SHOPSMITH!" postings. And they're not the same ad/machine.

I personally wouldn't opt for a ShopSmith. But I can see why others would like this machine. So, the bottom line is, if you want one, you might as well buy used since there sure are a lot of people trying to get rid of them.

Shopsmith is a live and well. They are ready to introduce a new model that has electronic speed control.

Yes you do see a lot for sale on CL but have to understand that they are built like a tank and never wear out. To the untrained eye they all look the same. They have not changed much over the years. But a lot I see for sale is from the 1950's or 60's. My Shopsmith looks brand new but it is 20 years old. One thing that shopsmith does that no other tool manufacture does. They go out of their way to make sure most all upgrades to the new models can also be done by owners of older models. For example the new Headstock that will be out soon. They could just make you buy a new headstock or even a whole new Shopsmith. But they will just sell you the parts needed for the upgrade to do at home or can send it to Shopsmith and have them upgrade your old unit.

All the big tool names like JET or Grizzly are introducing new table saws witha riving knife. If you want one, You have to buy a whole new saw. If that were shopsmith (they have always had a riving knife.) they would sell you an upgrade kit.

EDIT: The one in Denver with PRICE REDUCED is most likley just below what he paid for that new. They once gave the Bandsaw and Dust collector away with purchase. If he gets that price he would be doing good. My 20 year old model 510 Shopsmith cost $1,200 new. The new model (that has been out for a few years) Is the model 520 that I think is around $3,500.

[Richard Wagner]

I think that there is a world of difference in the "usefulness" of Mk V based on how much you pay. If you are buying a new one, spend the same money on standalone tools. If you are shopping for a used one, then you can spend $600 and fill in several thousand dollars worth of holes in your shop equipment. When you can eventually afford to replace all the MK V's functions with standalone tools, then turn it into the best sanding station that money can buy.

I love mine and it's a great platform to support and power shop made gizmos.

I could agree with you (or at least not disagree) if space is available for all of those stand alones. I believe that the Shopsmith's strong selling point is that one can have so many of the stand alone functions even if working in a limited space.

If you attempt to locate a good sized table saw, jointer, sanding station, router station, drill press, work bench, lathe, and storage in a 400 square foot shop, you run out of space to work in. I would love to add a Unisaw with a huge wing and out feed table to my equipment list but it can not happen due to space.

NOTE: I would not move out the Shopsmith even if I had that TS. It is just too versatile to be replaced.

[Alan Schaffter]

David- I always wondered! Thanks.

I owned Mk-V for about 20 years and about the time a new one was selling for $3000, sold it for twice what I paid! David pretty much nailed it. A shopsmith is all things to some and nothing to others. Many owners are devoted and will argue its virtues all day long. It was good for me when I was in the Navy moving from assignment to assignment and had little space in base housing. Once I had the space it was standalone single purpose machines.

The scariest thing I ever did was to cut rails and stiles for all my kitchen cabinets on the SS using a 6" Craftsman molder. Now that was scary- I had a couple of grabs and kickbacks that almost ended the project.

On the reported new electronic headstock- just like most electronic variable speed machines (mostly lathes) they will still likely keep the mechanical Reeves drive because you can't get decent hp at low RPM with electronic speed control. If they don't, fuhgetaboutit! Buy a used one, keep it for 5 years, then sell it for what you paid.

One thing is telling about the SS - take a look at how many special accessories, mods, etc. they came up with over the years to make the SS "work like other woodworking machines"! Like the car (Toyota?) commercial says, why not buy the real thing?

[John Harden]

You tryin' to start another fight? "Dissing" the SS is a good way to do it. I had a SS once, a long time ago. My father wrote the book that came with them (Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone) You might say I "grew up" with the SS. I used the one I had for a few years and then "graduated" to heavier duty machines. So this is not a completely uninformed opinion.

The SS is a very clever design. It can perform fairly well in a "low output" or "hobbiest" environment. And it can be jigged up to do a surprising number of tasks. But it is what it is and the attempt to be a "do all" machine puts it squarely in the "jack of all trades, master of none" category. As a drill press, it is excellent as long as you factor in the less than rigid structure. As a horizontal boring machine, it's great. As a lathe, it's shaky and underpowered. As a disk sander, it is superb. As a table saw, it scares the bejezus out of me. The table is too small, too high and too rickety for me to be comfortable working on it. The fence is a joke. And while the blade is secured to the arbor with a nut, the arbor is secured to the power shaft with a set screw. That alone is enough to give me bad dreams. And tilting tables have never been worth a hill of beans in my book.

All other functions (jointer, planer, band saw, etc.) require the purchase of "attachments" which are simply small machines with no motors or stands that attach to the SS and use it's motor via a coupling (again secured by set screws). These typically do not cost any less than decent used single purpose tools of equivalent capacity. So it's hard to appreciate any real gain there.

Also, the SS is not cheap (new ones start at three grand) so it is entirely possible that by looking around for good used tools, you could put together a much better basic shop without spending any more and you would be free from the hassle of having to stop work to reconfigure the SS every time you wanted to use a different tool.

David, very fair evaluation in my opinion.

IMHO, the SS tries to be a combo machine using a very unconventional and lightweight design. My brother bought one over 20 years ago and still uses it. I've used it and it has the shortcomings and strengths others have mentioned.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is how much more machine you can get for your money by looking at a European combo machine. A Hammer, 500 Series Felder, or lower end MiniMax is far superior in design, and costs about the same as a SS once you add in SS's crazy expensive add-ons. They too can be had used, particularly in this economy. Felder and MM/SCMI have been making combos FAR longer than SS and have it down pretty well.

Sure, you give up the lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations. In return, you get a sliding table saw, 10-16 inch jointer/planer, shaper, and a real horizontal mortiser.

I have one (actually two) and they are just plain sweet!!!!

Just my .02

Regards,

John

[Dave Lehnert]

David, very fair evaluation in my opinion.

IMHO, the SS tries to be a combo machine using a very unconventional and lightweight design. My brother bought one over 20 years ago and still uses it. I've used it and it has the shortcomings and strengths others have mentioned.

One thing I've not seen mentioned is how much more machine you can get for your money by looking at a European combo machine. A Hammer, 500 Series Felder, or lower end MiniMax is far superior in design, and costs about the same as a SS once you add in SS's crazy expensive add-ons. They too can be had used, particularly in this economy. Felder and MM/SCMI have been making combos FAR longer than SS and have it down pretty well.

Sure, you give up the lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations. In return, you get a sliding table saw, 10-16 inch jointer/planer, shaper, and a real horizontal mortiser.

I have one (actually two) and they are just plain sweet!!!!

Just my .02

Regards,

John

lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations.

First time I ever heard that the drill press is marginal. That is often given as it's strong point.

I would love to have the opportunity to try out a Uro combo just to see what they are like. But did not realize one could be had for the price of a Shopsmith. I thought they were much more expensive.

[John Harden]

lathe and drill press, but SS is marginal in both of these configurations.

First time I ever heard that the drill press is marginal. That is often given as it's strong point.

I would love to have the opportunity to try out a Uro combo just to see what they are like. But did not realize one could be had for the price of a Shopsmith. I thought they were much more expensive.

List price on a new MiniMax C26 is barely $6K and includes a sliding table saw with outrigger, 10" jointer and planer, two speed shaper with 1 1/4" spindle and you can get a mortising attachment for the J/P if you want. Unit has three, 2.5 hp, 220V motors. That's list price. Sale price would be less than that.

Shopsmith's website shows that their MarkV with "Pro" table and 1 1/8 hp motor would run you $3500. I tried to find the price of their jointer attachment and other things, but can't seem to find it on their website. Do they not sell them any more, or is there perhaps another website?

You can pick up used Euro combo's for about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of new all the time. Sure, many of these are of the higher priced, larger versions, but many of them are similiar to the C26, Smart, the Hammer line from Felder or the Platinum series from Laguna.

Heck, Laguna has a Platinum, 5 function combo for barely $5k!!

Regards,

John

[Dave Loebach]

I used to own one and used it mainly for the drill press. But it can do many things no other tool can do easily (horizontal boring, sanding a piece to a perfect circle, overhead routing and shaping...). I loved it. It is accurate, but a pita to use. I loved it and hated to get rid of it. Why did I get rid of it? The damn thing was just too big. Unless it is your primary shop tool, it just takes up a ton of space. I have many regrets about getting rid of mine.

Dave Loebach

[Richard Wagner]

I don't see how the manufacturer of the ShopSmith can stay in business. I can't search for used tools on Craigslist without seeing a dozen "SHOPSMITH!" postings. And they're not the same ad/machine.

I personally wouldn't opt for a ShopSmith. But I can see why others would like this machine. So, the bottom line is, if you want one, you might as well buy used since there sure are a lot of people trying to get rid of them.

EDIT: For giggles, I just searched for "Shopsmith" on Craigslist and found ten of them currently for sale in the Denver area alone. One says, "Price lowered!" and it appears to be a new model with the bandsaw attachment.

Shopsmith is definitely alive and well and weathering this financial crisis quite well.

The fact that you see so many machines being offered for sale is NOT a sign of trouble but rather evidence of the machines sustainability. Many odf these are thirty and forty year old machines that will be put back in service by their new owners.

The sustainability factor is that one can still buy parts for these old machines. Not true of many others.

[Ed Sallee]

My Shopsmith, serial number 309472, which makes it a 1955 model is still running strong. Those of you that have a SS can see what year yours was manufactured at this link.

My Dad gave me this SS back in '92 and I worked with it exclusively for nearly 10 years. Totally satisfied with the results. Yes, it took a lot of tinkering for the various setups, but for me, that was all part of it.

My SS also came with a Magna Bandsaw & a Jointer. Back then, they were manufactured by the Magna corporation for SS, as was the SS itself. The Bandsaw & Jointer have Magna name & data plates. No mention of SS.

I have built many a project with my Dad's SS and I wouldn't be without it. Although I use it mainly for the Drill Press, Disc Sander, Bandsaw & Horizontal Boring functions now.... it is still a joy to pull it out and give it a spin.

I did, however, change over some of the innards so I could use the Poly-V belt, versus the old style gilmer belt and I also installed a double bearing quill. Other than that, everything is original - with the exception of a new speed control handle which needs replacing every now and again because the gear teeth are aluminum and do strip out from time to time.

Not bad for a machine that's 54 years old....and counting.

[Pat Germain]

Shopsmith is definitely alive and well and weathering this financial crisis quite well.

The fact that you see so many machines being offered for sale is NOT a sign of trouble but rather evidence of the machines sustainability. Many odf these are thirty and forty year old machines that will be put back in service by their new owners.

The sustainability factor is that one can still buy parts for these old machines. Not true of many others.

I wasn't suggesting the company is any trouble. Rather, I'm saying since the Shopsmiths are very durable, and there are always lots of used examples for sale at very reasonable prices, why would I buy a new machine? If most people simply opt to select one of the many used machines, I'm wondering how the company sells enough new machines to stay in business. But I'm glad to hear they are doing well.

[Dave Lehnert]

I wasn't suggesting the company is any trouble. Rather, I'm saying since the Shopsmiths are very durable, and there are always lots of used examples for sale at very reasonable prices, why would I buy a new machine? If most people simply opt to select one of the many used machines, I'm wondering how the company sells enough new machines to stay in business. But I'm glad to hear they are doing well.

Shopsmith is down to something like 11 employees. It seems that their business today is more a parts business and they will build you a new tool if you need one. They are most often not in stock.

[Gary Chester]

[QUOTE=Dave Lehnert;1270529]All the big tool names like JET or Grizzly are introducing new table saws witha riving knife. If you want one, You have to buy a whole new saw. If that were shopsmith (they have always had a riving knife.) they would sell you an upgrade kit.

I don't think Shopspsmith ever had a riving knife... pretty sure... no, very sure.

That said... My Dad had a Shopsmith and he bought me one. It's a good tool for the space challanged. I have more room now so it's gone.

[Alan Schaffter]

I looked and couldn't find anything current, but according to this March '07 article in the Dayton Daily News, ShopSmith was in a "precarious financial condition" and just about went under then. It said they hadn't turned a profit since '04!

I saw this on the site of a guy who repairs SS:

July 10, 2009 - Insiders report that Shopsmith Inc has folded, laying off all remaining staff, and is reorganizing under a new name (RLF Shop) and business structure to get out from under a huge amount of debt. More and more parts have been on backorder and backordered parts are taking longer to receive.

There were no links to verify that.

Here is a link to a Sheriff's bankruptcy sale it appears to list some (or all?) of Shopsmith property for about 2.5M? In any case they are in trouble.

It should be interesting to see if RLF (Robert L. Folkerth son of the founder John Folkerth?) Shop that was reported on some forums to be taking over is able to rise from the SS ashes. There appears to be a lot of debt involved.