How to choose between a #4 and #4 1/2 ?

[Tom Jones III]

I've been slowly learning and adding to my plane collection and I am ready to purchase a good smoother. I'm currently using an Anant #4 that after infinite labor does an acceptable job but is not a joy to use.

My main question is how do I choose between a #4 and a #4 1/2?

I'd also appreciate any suggestions for what brand to choose, but I'm leaning heavily towards LN because of my experience with their block plane and shoulder plane. There is no used market to speak of where I live so that is not much of an option and after my experience rebuilding the Anant I'm ready to buy a handplane that is ready to use.

[Jeff Willard]

I've always found a 4 1/2 to be slightly unwieldy. I much prefer the size of a #4. If I saw myself smoothing a lot of larger pieces, I'd choose a 4 1/2, otherwise, I'd stick with the 4. YMMV.
Can't go wrong with Lie-Nielsen. I just added a sixth to the stable.
One thing you might want to consider is interchangability among the irons. Do you currently use, or plan on any other plane purchases? The 4 and 5 use a common iron. The 4 1/2, 6, and 7 use the same iron. I find having extra irons on hand to be a plus, but $40-$50 a pop for irons is significant.

[Prashun Patel]

You can't go wrong with either.

The choice between 4 and 4 1/2 is largely based on your hand size. The 4 will be slightly more versatily in tighter spots. The 4 1/2's are a little harder to come by, so if you buy used, you'll probably pay a little more.

You might consider the bevel up smoothers from Veritas (or LN). They're in the same league as the LN 'normals', but have a slightly different feel and some say are better in switchier grain. I love mine...

[Matthew Dworman]

I've always found a 4 1/2 to be slightly unwieldy.

My experience is otherwise. I find the added weight of the 4 1/2 helpful. For me it's the 4 1/2 hands down - I own both, but if I could only keep 1, it would definitely be the 4 1/2.

Pros:
Added weight - 1.5 lbs more than the 4. more mass= less work. Inertia and gravity are your friends
Blade width - 3/8" wider - extra width means fewer passes

Cons:
none

This is my take - others will surely disagree. If you have the opportunity to try them for yourself, you will know for sure.
I see that LN will be in Austin, TX Jan 8 & 9. If you can make it to that, you can test drive all the toys....


Best regards,
Matthew

[Robert Rozaieski]

I like a shorter, smaller plane for a smoother. There's less need for flatness when you use a shorter plane. With the longer smoother, it will tend to ride the high spots more so it will require more planing to get the entire surface smooth. When you are taking super thin shavings with a smoother, it can make a difference. I now use wooden smoothers that are all about 8" long, but when I used metal planes, my #3 was my favorite, even more than my #4. If you are choosing between the #4 and the #4½, my choice would be the #4.

[Prashun Patel]

Not to sound like a broken record here, but the Veritas BU Smoother has more mass than a typical #4, and is a little wider.

[Tom Jones III]

I think I see the consensus of the group, I need to buy all 3! I had not considered the BU smoother, it might be a good option for me since I work mainly with walnut and sometimes the grain can get tricky.

[Matt Stiegler]

My main question is how do I choose between a #4 and a #4 1/2?

There's no consensus on this. For example, the authors of two of the leading books on handplanes, Hack and Schwarz, disagree, Hack preferring larger and Schwarz smaller. I think the only way to really know which you prefer is to use both for a while and decide. That said, some often-mentioned reasons to get a #4 1/2 are:

• more mass, so you have to press down less
• for work on larger projects like tables or dressers
• if you have bigger hands
• to have blades that are interchangeable with a #7 jointer and #5 1/2 jack

And some reasons to get a #4 are:

• faster because shorter sole doesn't do as much flattening
• to work on medium to small projects
• you got smaller hands
• much easier to find, and less expensive, used

My own two cents on this is that the big hands/small hands thing is overrated and shouldn't be a factor. For me, I'd get a 4 1/2 if I wanted one smoother to use instead of a ROS after power tool dimensioning, but I'd get a #4 if I envisioned more hand tool work. But as Shawn said, a bevel up smoother (LV BUS or LAS) is worth a serious look too.

There are lots of other threads discussing this, including here and here.

I'd also appreciate any suggestions for what brand to choose, but I'm leaning heavily towards LN because of my experience with their block plane and shoulder plane.

You can't go wrong with LN or LV here. I've seen a couple very respected sources say that folks generally regard LN's BD planes as superior and LV's BU planes as superior. The handles on LV planes are less canted, which might make them less comfortable on a lower bench and more comfortable on a higher bench.

There is no used market to speak of where I live so that is not much of an option and after my experience rebuilding the Anant I'm ready to buy a handplane that is ready to use.

Fair enough, although there are excellent, reputable sources for used planes online (Walt at Brass City is one among several) that are far, far less of a crapshoot then ebay or cheapies. If buying used Stanleys, many suggest focusing on types 9 or 10 through 13 or 15.

[Steve Hamlin]

I have both, and as already stated, the choice is all down to personal preference and perhaps the size of both you and the work. What you're used to will be a big factor. I started with just a number 7 jointer, and so naturally gravitate to the 4 1/2 size (in my case a Clfton 4 1/2 or Record CS88.) I like the heft and stability as well as the width of cut. My 4 gets used more as a teeny try plane.
If going for new, neither LN nor Veritas nor Clifton will be found wanting, and all three companies (and their principle agents) offer great customer support.
(I'm a Brit, and so like racing green paint, so my choice was fixed before I was properly domesticated.)

[Jeff Willard]

I have the 62 and 164. Good choices, and would add a lot of versatility to your arsenal.

[jerry nazard]

The 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 have some high profile users and thus a bit of attached celebrity mystique. When I acquired my 4 1/2 (Millers Falls), I thought that it would become my "go to" plane for smoothing. After the initial excitement died down, I found myself using it less and less. For most jobs, a #4 is what I want: however, I find myself reaching for a #3 almost as often (see Bob's earlier post). Just my .02.

[scott spencer]

I think I see the consensus of the group, I need to buy all 3! I had not considered the BU smoother, it might be a good option for me since I work mainly with walnut and sometimes the grain can get tricky.

As the old saying goes...."When in doubt, buy all three"!

I like the heft and feel of my 4-1/2 so I tend to reach for that more than my 4.

[Mick David]

I just faced the same decision and, after attending a L-N event, picked up the Lee Valley #4. I have the LN low-angle jack already, so I wanted to get something with a shorter sole. Plus, the size of the #4 felt better to me.

I went with the LV largely due to positive reviews and the fact that it's $100 less than the comparable LN.

[Jeff Willard]

I find myself reaching for a #3 almost as often...

I really like a #3 also, but since that wasn't part of the OP's query, I didn't address it. But now that it's been brought up, I'm as likely to pick up a 3 as I am a 4.

It's fun spending other peoples money!

[Jim Koepke]

If you can manage or afford to "buy all three" that would by my suggestion. But then, my collection of old Stanley/Bailey style planes was put together over a few years.

Not sure if this translates into an answer but there are two type 6 and one type 9 #4s plus one Bedrock #604 in my shop. There is only one #4-1/2. One of the type 6 #4s is set with an almost too closed mouth. With a well honed blade, this can take super thin shavings off a board without regard to grain direction. With many boards the difference in the finish can be felt more than it can be seen.

My 4-1/2 seems to get a little better when ever a bit more time is spent fettling on it. It is a type 6 and though in good condition when it was bought, it was not in good shape. The sole was not flat, and could still use another hour or two of work. When a wide board is being smoothed, it is usually the go to user. Since there is only one of these in my shop, it is set with a medium mouth.

The tight mouthed #4 was set up that way recently to compare with the Bedrock with a very tight mouth. The jury is still out, but since there is no hurry on my part, they all get to stay for now.

If you can wait to attend the tool event in Austin, TX you will be amazed at what gems of information and ideas you can pick up. You will also be able see how the planes feel to you.

So my final 2¢ on this is... drum roll please... Buy the new #4-1/2 from LN and then troll ebay for an early #4 or two. Over time, you may even find that a #3 or even the smaller bench planes have a place in your arsenal.

jim