Motor upgrade for lathe

[Raymond Sprouse]

That's funny you say that John. I am "working" now too.

I'll have to think on it a bit more. I'll prob build a box for now, get everything working, and then try to figure out a remote if I think I still need one. I like the idea of a run/stop switch.

I think I'll check with the multimeter when it is up and running. See if there is any 24 volt supply built in. I'll let you know.

Thanks again John.

[Raymond Sprouse]

Dave,
Thanks for the feedback. By looking at the manual, I can't tell if there is a 24 volt from the vfd. I'll check when I get it running.

I did read your vicmarc build. That is where I got all the ideas and info on the remote.

Like you, I dL a copy of the vfd manual before I got it. It seemed simple enough until I really starting thinking about how it all goes together. Then it became sketchy. Oh well, live an learn.

John seems to REALLY know his stuff about vfd's, so, when the time comes, I think with the help from the great people here, I'll figure something out.

Thanks Dave

[John Hart]

Yeah...it's weird. The manual says that external digital inputs need to be between 22 and 27 Vdc supplied from the external equipment. It says the same thing about the 10V supply to the speed control circuit.

Also...they have a concern about feedback going backward through that circuitry from the motor controller. So even when you get it all hooked up, they say that you might have erratic behavior in the motor....at which time, you need to add additional filters (Capacitors or Ferrite Beads) to fix it.

If they supplied the DC power, you wouldn't have that problem.

[Raymond Sprouse]

Thanks John. I remember reading about the feedback in the manual. I forgot about that. Oh well, we'll get er done.

[Dave Mueller]

Raymond,
Sorry for jumping in so late, but I have put VFD controllers on two lathes (2 HP), both of which used a Westinghouse Teco FM50. I believe that it is similar to all VFDs in that they provide a regulated 10 volt output on one of the pins. If you look on page 2-10 of the manual you provided a link for, they show a +10 volt output limited to 10 ma. With a 5K ohm pot, you would only draw about 2 ma.

I attached a picture of the control box I used. It is a standard 3 hole 22 mm switch enclosure with a pot for speed control, a reversing switch and a twist on/push off switch. All are 22 mm, so they mount directly in the enclosure. I used Cat 5 cable for the connection between the control box and the VFD because is is well shielded and the control inputs do not require any significant current. Also, it is readily available and pretty cheap (just like me).
Dave

[John Hart]

Sheesh...now why didn't I see that? I looked right at it....in fact, that's the spec where they cite the 5K pot.

Dave's right, that output removes the need for an external source to the pot. The other voltages however, from any of the switches still require an external source.

And if you do decide to go with the pot, remember to program Function F01 to 1. Out of the box, it is programmed as 4 which is the controllers front panel speed control.

[Raymond Sprouse]

No worries. I missed a lot of stuff too. Sometimes we just need a fresh pair of eyes.

So it looks like, acording to page 2-11, I'll need a power sorce of 22-27 volts, 2.5-5 ma if I want to add a run/stop and fwd/rev switch.

Ok, we're getting there.

[Jeff Nicol]

Ray and John, When I did my conversion (3 years ago) I put the pot and the on of switch on the remote for the exact reson you stated "Keep the dust off the VFD" I mounted it on a post with a plexi dust cover with some small holes for heat to escape as the VFD will get warm during use. Using the correct POT is key, I used one that was reccomended by TECO when I bought the VFD and it was not very smooth and we changed it so it would start at slower speeds, just like John has reccomended. He is correct that you will have to program the VFD to the remote for it to work. I am not sure if they have a way to have it both ways on some different models. This is not a problem as it is easy to go back and change it to the keypad on the VFD when needed. I also over clocked mine to go up to 90hz and it is a screamer! I only use the higher speeds for friction finishing so it does not get used much. I have just a single pulley on not a step pulley and I have from roughly 20rpm (Usable) up to about 3500+. It all depends on what you plan to do with the lathe how you configure the pulley setup.

So far you 2 have it figured out down to the last few tweaks!

Have fun,

Jeff

[Raymond Sprouse]

So I finally finished running the 220 line to the shop. I wired up the vfd to a plug that will fit my receptacle. Now to wire the motor. . .

I have a question about the motor wiring.

There are 9 wires in the motor.

Numbers 4,5,6 are twisted together.

9 and 3 are twisted together.

5 and 2 are twisted together.

7 and 1 are twisted together.

Looking at this picture from the motor,


It appears that this is for what they call "Lo Voltage".

According to the motor plate, this motor will handle 220 or 460. So does that mean the the "Lo" side is for 220?

It appears that I would leave the 4,5,6 wire nutted together.
Then connect the 9&3, 5&2, and 7&1 wires to one of the 3 coming out of my vfd?

If this is not correct, how should this be wired?

[Raymond Sprouse]

So I finally finished running the 220 line to the shop. I wired up the vfd to a plug that will fit my receptacle. Now to wire the motor. . .

I have a question about the motor wiring.

There are 9 wires in the motor.

Numbers 4,5,6 are twisted together.

9 and 3 are twisted together.

5 and 2 are twisted together.

7 and 1 are twisted together.

Looking at this picture from the motor,


It appears that this is for what they call "Lo Voltage".

According to the motor plate, this motor will handle 220 or 460. So does that mean the the "Lo" side is for 220?

It appears that I would leave the 4,5,6 wire nutted together.
Then connect the 9&3, 5&2, and 7&1 wires to one of the 3 coming out of my vfd?

If this is not correct, how should this be wired?

[Raymond Sprouse]

I gave the motor and vfd a test run last night. Seems to be working good. I was surprised at the amount of noise the little vfd puts out. The little fan really blows.

I did notice a slight wining noise coming from the motor. It is not very loud, but I am concerned that I might not have something right with it. It increases when I turn up the speed. But even at full speed, it is not very loud.

Any thoughts?

[John Hart]

Hi Raymond,

I'm glad to see that you got'r hooked up. Sorry...I've been very busy trying to finish my library. (I think it wants to kill me)

Anyway...yes...what you describe as whining, may be the nature of a frequency controlled device like a vfd. SCR drives do cause a motor to "sing". My guts tell me that this is normal.

My guts tell me a lot of things....and some of them ain't too pleasant.

[Raymond Sprouse]

Thanks John. I was hoping that was the case.

[Nigel Tracy]

I did notice a slight wining noise coming from the motor. It is not very loud, but I am concerned that I might not have something right with it. It increases when I turn up the speed. But even at full speed, it is not very loud.

Any thoughts?

My 3ph motor (Leeson) seems to "sing" when it's drawing considerably more then 100% of rated amperage. After thirty seconds or so of singing my VFD gives an "overload" message. Seems to happen most at slower speeds and heavy turning. Turning up the speed for a second then back down usually ends the singing and prevents an overload. There's probably a setting on the VFD I could tweak to deal with this (there are so many settings).

Maybe mine is a different type of "singing", but "singing" sure would describe it... for what it's worth...

Good luck,

Nigel

[Dave Schell]

I gave the motor and vfd a test run last night. Seems to be working good. I was surprised at the amount of noise the little vfd puts out. The little fan really blows.

I did notice a slight wining noise coming from the motor. It is not very loud, but I am concerned that I might not have something right with it. It increases when I turn up the speed. But even at full speed, it is not very loud.

Any thoughts?

My Hitachi drive made a noise like that when I first configured it - after some research, I found that it is related to (and alleviated by) the "carrier frequency." I was able to adjust the setting for that which made the noise all but go away. I would recommend searching your manual for a similiar parameter for you drive.