Oneida's new small cyclone?

[Jamie Buxton]

My understanding of cyclone-style chip collectors is that they have to be tall. I vaguely remember reading (probably on Bill Pentz's site) that the height was caused by the physics of the cyclone itself. Certainly the common small-shop ones from Oneida, Penn State, and the like are 7-8 feet tall. However, Oneida has just introduced a cyclone system for floor sanders. (http://www.oneidavac.com/howitworks.htm) It features a small cyclone mounted on the sander, and a flexible hose to carry the separated sawdust off the machine. The cyclone is only a foot or two tall.

Can somebody explain what's going on here? For instance, does this mean that cyclones don't really have to be as big as the common small-shop ones are? Could one build a shorter, mobile, cyclone to serve the usual woodshop machines without the restrictions imposed by a tall cyclone and fixed ductwork? Or maybe my question is what Oneida traded off to produce this small cyclone.

[Jack Diemer]

Cyclone has to be tall to pull the dust through a 4-6 inch duct over a long length. A cyclone does not have to be tall to pull through a small pipe only a couple of feet. A good example are the bagless cyclone vacuums.

[JayStPeter]

Jacks got it. The flow rate and particle size determine the cyclone size. Keep reading the Penz site and you'll find some of the math in there.

Jay

[Jim Becker]

When I was up at Oneida picking up my new system in February, they were doing the photo shoot on the mini-cylone. (They do all that in-house) While I was sworn to secrecy over it, it really was a very kewel little thing! A few years ago, a fellow by the name of Mike Simpson in Leesburg VA made a little cyclone after building the WOOD Magazine version for his shop. You can see it on his site at http://www.mgsweb.com/woodworking/index.html ...menu on the left has a link. Check out the very last picture in the pop-up article...amazing!

Jack's got it right, too. The cylone disrupts the flow in such a way that the particles drop out of the air stream. As long as the proportions are right for the job at hand, it should work in any size.

[Chris Padilla]

WOW! That is totally freakin' COOL, Jim!!!

[Steve Clardy]

Hmmm. Now thats a cool little sucker. Wondering now about adapting it to something else. Maybe my drum sander. Another project idea I'll have to file away.

Steve

[Jim Becker]

Wondering now about adapting it to something else. Maybe my drum sander.

Probably not a good fit for a drumsander due to CFM requirements but perfect for an overarm guard or other "point pickup" situation...even dust collection at a lathe when sanding might work.

[Steve Clardy]

Probably not a good fit for a drumsander due to CFM requirements but perfect for an overarm guard or other "point pickup" situation...even dust collection at a lathe when sanding might work.

My thoughts on this weren't directed to just using it as a complete dust pickup for the drum sander, but as a helper. It is already hooked to my 3500 cfm system, but due to the fact that where the dust ports are located, and the drum rotation, I still get a lot of dust build up from the outfeed table, catching on the ends of the boards coming out.
My thoughts were to use it on the outfeed portion, to pick up the overflow of dust that ends up on the floor. Most all drum or belt sanders I have used and seen have this common problem.

[Jim Becker]

That would be an interesting application, Steve. How would you structure the "hood" to pick up that stray dust??

[Steve Clardy]

That would be an interesting application, Steve. How would you structure the "hood" to pick up that stray dust??

I'd have to sleep on it, but my current thoughts are to mount a dust hood under the end of outfeed table, out of the way where the lumber comes through.
Can't remember the guys name now, but there was a Jim somebody here in MO. that experimented with dust control a few years back. He had a dual system, two 3hp units in tandem, sitting outside for his main system.
On his drum sander, He did Tylers trick, used a leaf blower, but hooked to the end of his drum sander, picking up the leftover dust. He was still working on it when He just kinda evaporated off the net. He, like Tyler, said the noise was to much though, and wasn't that efficient, being a leaf blower isn't designed for dust collection.

So I am wondering if a small system like this sander application, whether built or bought would do the trick. Maybe hook the outlet into my present ductwork instead of having a separate drum to blow it into.

[Jim Becker]

That would have been Jim Halbert.

[Steve Clardy]

That would have been Jim Halbert.

That's the name. Last I emailed him, it came back. So I guess he changed emails. We were to meet up sometime in Springfield, MO. for coffee and shoot the woodworking breeze.
Haven't seen him on the net in a long time.

[Jim Becker]

Jim "dropped off the net" a few years ago for some reason.

[Steve Clardy]

Jim "dropped off the net" a few years ago for some reason.

During some of our emails back and forth, I think it was due to the fact of him being bashed pretty heavy on his research. Really sad, as He had loads of good ideas.

[Ed Morgano]

When I was up at Oneida picking up my new system in February, they were doing the photo shoot on the mini-cylone. (They do all that in-house) While I was sworn to secrecy over it, it really was a very kewel little thing! A few years ago, a fellow by the name of Mike Simpson in Leesburg VA made a little cyclone after building the WOOD Magazine version for his shop. You can see it on his site at http://www.mgsweb.com/woodworking/index.html ...menu on the left has a link. Check out the very last picture in the pop-up article...amazing!

Jack's got it right, too. The cylone disrupts the flow in such a way that the particles drop out of the air stream. As long as the proportions are right for the job at hand, it should work in any size.

Jim,
I tried following that link but it didn't work. I realize this is an old post but was wondering if you had any other information.

Thanks,

Ed