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Thread: Delta-FL Installation Experience

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Milwaukee, WI
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    Delta-FL Installation Experience

    There has been some interest in Delta-FL so I am posting the results of my application and installation as promised. My shop is a converted three car garage that is 36x24. It's located in northern WI and have been building it out since late August. I decided to put in a floor for a few reasons...concrete is tough on the knees and back, and the concrete slab is so cold in the winter (and sweats like crazy in the summer). I looked at the dricore but it's cost was prohibitive. I ultimately found Delta-Fl on the web.

    I am only doing 24x20 of the shop...the other area will be used as a finishing assemble and wood storage area and still has the one car garage door (I walled off the two car door), so leaving it concrete seemed prudent. I ultimately will paint it with an epoxy floor paint like Rustoleum.

    Delta-FL is available from Lowe's as a special order...the closest Lowe's to my shop is in Plover WI...they had it in the store on clearance. $9 for a 42" by 30' roll, and it came with the moisture proof tape! Check in the flooring department AND building materials.

    First decision was what flooring material to use. I didn't want OSB or plywood although some have said they have had good results. Composite vinyl tile seemed like it would be too slick when dusty, and the manufacturer indicated cold temps can cause brittleness in the tile and adhesive...my shop can get below zero when not in use. I found some 3/4" 3-1/4" "rustic" red oak T&G hardwood flooring for $0.99/sf on craigslist that seemed perfect for a shop floor. ( If anyone is interested it is listed in "material" on the Minneapolis site.) The net cost will be about $1.15 due to a fair amount of waste.

    Delta-FL requires a 3/4" OSB or plywood subfloor for installation of hardwood (or carpet). I chose T&G OSB. This subfloor must be secured to the slab with tapcons at 2' on center...15 tapcons per 4x8 sheet. I bought the OSB at Menards for $11/sheet.

    First step was laying down the Delta-FL. It should be installed tight to the wall. It was real simple to lay down. It was stored in the garage at single digit temps and still rolled out easy. It will have some memory at the edges but I just laid a 2x4 over it to hold in place. Cuts easily with a razor knife...or you can use scissors. Roll out the next run and simply tape the butt seam. Again, temp seemed to have no effect on the tape, it worked easy and held the seam together.

    I laid down two rows of Delta-FL (7 feet wide), and then started laying the OSB over the top. I used this same approach to do the whole floor...Delta-FL until I could run another course of OSB. This keeps the Delta-FL from moving around.

    The OSB was laid in a brick pattern, using half sheets every other row. The biggest pain was of course was the snapcons...er tapcons. I bought a HF rotary hammer drill with SDS ($59) to drill the holes which made the job easiert having to do about 300 holes. Went through three drill bits because of breakage. Used a Milwaukee Magnum 1/2" drill to drive the snapcons home. The key I found is to have a drill with enough torque to drive the snapcons quickly...any pause and they catch and break...and then you have to drill another hole

    In a few spots I had spalling so I simply cut small pieces of Delta-FL to build up the layer...worked fine. Whatever amount of "out of level" my slab is seemed to have no effect on the Delta-FL/OSB combo. The OSB pulled down tight and there was no "clicking" of the flooring as i walked on it.

    Once the Delta-FL/OSB was finished I laid/stapled 15# roofing felt and installed the flooring. I used a bostich pneumatic flooring stapler with 1/2" crown 1-1/2" staples. You have to use the shorter 1-1/2" staples so you do not puncture the Delta-FL.

    Very pleased with the result. The Delta-FL provides a continuous uniform moisture barrier between the slab and sub-floor, and because it lifts the subfloor 5/16" off the slab it provides air circulation and a thermal break. The floor quickly gets to ambient room temperature. There is just enough "bounce" to make it easier on the body. And my hardwood floor looks cool and will protect tool edges.

    Total cost: Delta-FL+OSB =$0.43/sf

    Any questions let me know.
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    Last edited by George Bregar; 01-05-2010 at 9:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Vernon, Connecticut
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    510
    Thanks for the excellent summary George. It looks like you found a winner. I am one of those who has been considering dricore and other options to keep my floor warm and feet comfortable.

    Any chance to post some pics of the finished floor? I'd love to see what "rustic red oak" looks like. Are you sure that the 1/1/2" staples don't penetrate the Delta-FL?

    Thanks again,

    Bob

  3. #3
    having used both dricore and delta-FL, I think you have summed up Delta installation nicely.

    you can use 1/2" OSB just fine and as you found out, use a lot of tapcons to ensure you don't get any floating spots. I like delta-fl better than dricore because of it's availability (good distributor network besides Lowes) and using 4x8 sheets of OSB makes installing it quick work.

    Until something better comes along, I would not do a finish floor over concrete using anything else.

  4. If that's new concrete, I'd paint that other part of the floor ASAP.
    DAMHIK,
    DP
    Dale Probst
    www.wardprobst.com

  5. #5
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    Nov 2007
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    Milwaukee, WI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Winkler View Post
    Thanks for the excellent summary George. It looks like you found a winner. I am one of those who has been considering dricore and other options to keep my floor warm and feet comfortable.

    Any chance to post some pics of the finished floor? I'd love to see what "rustic red oak" looks like. Are you sure that the 1/1/2" staples don't penetrate the Delta-FL?

    Thanks again,

    Bob
    Bob, I'm not sure about the staples, as i would have to take up the OSB to check and I'm not redoing the tapcons! But that is what the Delta-FL install calls for. The staples are driven in at a 45 degree angle, and have to penetrate from the tongue of the hardwod flooring throught the felt paper and then the 3/4" osb to get to the Drelta-FL. The top of the tongue is 1/2" from the bottom of the 3/4" hardwood, so the total depth is 1.25". The pythagorean theoremtells us that the hypotenuse is 1.77", so 1 1/2" inch staple should not penetrate the Delta-FL.

    I only have half the flooring in and left my camera up north, here is the only pic I have. Once done I will post a better one. The "rustic" oak has a lot of knots, checks, holes. Lot's of "shorts" too. Hence the 20% waste...some pieces are unusable or need to be cut. The good thing is it was "endmatched", that is the ends were also tongue and grooved. That should help the boards not curling up. I like it because it really begs to be worked on! No worry about damaging it. I'm not even really going to sand or topcoat it. I will probably just stain it as is and then put the same thing I put on my deck, a transparent oil based UV/H2O sealer.

    Edit: I've attached a photo from the craigslist ad that is pretty representative. The oak in the photo clearly has been stained but otherwise this is what I got. Pieces run from 12" to 7' but most are 12-48".
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by George Bregar; 01-04-2010 at 11:42 PM.

  6. #6
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    Nov 2007
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    Milwaukee, WI
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Probst View Post
    If that's new concrete, I'd paint that other part of the floor ASAP.
    DAMHIK,
    DP
    I'm not sure why you think it's new concrete, in fact the garage is about 20 years old. You can see the spalling in the photo, and there are also a lot of oil stains from a rototiller that had a bad tranny seal. The 16x24 portion that I will be painting has no cracks or spalling, and is relatively clean. It won't be painted til summer, the slab is way too cold now.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2007
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
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    Oops here is the photo with the Delta-FL taped and the subfloor finished. You can see where I ran 4" PVC and 1/2" conduit for dust collection and power under the slab for my Unisaw and DJ-20 jointer.
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    Last edited by George Bregar; 01-05-2010 at 9:10 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arvada, Colorado
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    1

    My experience

    I installed DeltaFL over a month-old concrete slab. I had to use a few pieces of the DeltaFL to deal with a few small dips in the concrete. The slab installer did a great job leveling the floor for my shop. I covered the DeltaFL with a pergo-like floor from Lowes (on sale). The results are great.
    I used this approach to flooring for two main reasons: a floor with some give to keep my old joints healthy and a moisture barrier that provided some insulation. See the picture made right after installing the floor.

  9. #9
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Record View Post
    I installed DeltaFL over a month-old concrete slab. I had to use a few pieces of the DeltaFL to deal with a few small dips in the concrete. The slab installer did a great job leveling the floor for my shop. I covered the DeltaFL with a pergo-like floor from Lowes (on sale). The results are great.
    I used this approach to flooring for two main reasons: a floor with some give to keep my old joints healthy and a moisture barrier that provided some insulation. See the picture made right after installing the floor.
    Yeah, it's a great product for a floating floor and inexpensive.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kingsport, TN
    Posts
    116

    Delta-FL Question

    George,
    Can you give me the Lowe's item number from your receipt? I have only found it as a special order item at my regular Lowe's, but I have noticed many people have purchased it on closeout at their local Lowe's store. So I want to call around to some other fairly local stores to see if any of them have the Delta-FL in stock.

    Thanks,
    Eric

  11. #11
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Porter View Post
    George,
    Can you give me the Lowe's item number from your receipt? I have only found it as a special order item at my regular Lowe's, but I have noticed many people have purchased it on closeout at their local Lowe's store. So I want to call around to some other fairly local stores to see if any of them have the Delta-FL in stock.

    Thanks,
    Eric
    Sorry I don't. Just ask to talk to someone in flooring and building materials. Seems they stock it both places. Oddly the Lowe's where I bought mine had it on sale for $29.97 in building materials, and on clearance for $9 in flooring. I opted for the flooring stuff

  12. #12
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    Jan 2009
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    Wilmington, NC
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    I did a google search and read some posts on another forum. One guy said to be sure to put landscape fabric under the Delta. Any thoughts on this?

  13. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Cowan View Post
    I did a google search and read some posts on another forum. One guy said to be sure to put landscape fabric under the Delta. Any thoughts on this?
    Can't imagine why. What was his reasoning?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
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    455
    Here is what he said.

    "I used Platon (which is very similar to Delta FL) with 3/4" T&G OSB. I had pretty good luck. I do recommend adding high quality landscape fabric under the Delta FL if laying on concrete. The only reference to this in the Delta FL instructions was in Figure 1 which it refers to as optional sound reduction material. A friend used the Platon without the fabric underneath and if the OSB / plywood warps slightly due to humidity variation between screws there was an audible 'click' as the plastic Platon contacted the cement when walked on. The landscape fabric fixes this concern and can withstand any moisture that it may see during it's lifetime. "

  15. #15
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Cowan View Post
    Here is what he said.

    "I used Platon (which is very similar to Delta FL) with 3/4" T&G OSB. I had pretty good luck. I do recommend adding high quality landscape fabric under the Delta FL if laying on concrete. The only reference to this in the Delta FL instructions was in Figure 1 which it refers to as optional sound reduction material. A friend used the Platon without the fabric underneath and if the OSB / plywood warps slightly due to humidity variation between screws there was an audible 'click' as the plastic Platon contacted the cement when walked on. The landscape fabric fixes this concern and can withstand any moisture that it may see during it's lifetime. "
    It may be necessary if you float the subfloor/floor on the Delta-FL, but in my case the subfloor is secured to the slab with tapcons which pull everything tight. Not sure how OSB is going to warp when it is being held down 2' on center...15 tapcons be sheet. I really wouldn't be too concerned with clicking anyway frankly. Wouldn't be able to hear it over the creaking of my back and knees

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