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Thread: Sawstop!

  1. #31
    Let me help you make your decision based upon real life experience. I was not very specific in my last post. So let me detail by comparison why I recommend the Sawstop. Lets put the safety feature aside and look at the Sawstop as a saw. Lets compare it head to head with the Powermatic 66. I've owned both the Powermatic 66 and the Industrial Sawstop and so I actually know what I’m talking about (well maybe about this anyway). The Powermatic 66 is often held up as the gold standard. Well then the Sawstop is the platinum standard. I purchased PM 66 back in 2002. The table flatness was on the 66 was not as good as the Sawstop. I went over the 66 with a Lee valley straight edge and its was off by a 1/32" corner to corner! Not only is the Sawstop table far more accurately machined it is also thirty inches wide. The 66 table is attached to the cabinet with three inboard bolts. You adjust it by loosening the bolts and shifting the table as best you can. Tighten it up, and of course it shifts. You get to loosen the bolts and try again and again. All table saws have this defect except the Sawstop. The Sawstop table is held in place by eight (yes 8!) outboard bolts and moves on a centered boss. The table has two set screws that allow you to dial it in to absolute zero. No more banging the table back and forth because the set screws hold the table in place while you tighten up the bolts. The wings on my 66 drooped and had to be laboriously shimmed. Again this is a defect common to many saws. The wings on the Sawstop were true and needed no shimming. The miter slots of the 66 were not truly parallel to each other. This is also a common defect on many saws. It causes any truly tight and accurately made crosscut sled to bind. The miter slots on the Sawstop are dead true to each other. The fence on the 66 moves under pressure on the end (see Fine Woodworking review) The Sawstop fence has been rated the most rigid. Poor quality was evident in the tilt mechanism on my 66. The rack with the gear teeth was very crudely cast varying wildly between 5/8" to 3/4" and was not machined except for the teeth. It had concave milling but it was out of line with the worm by almost 1/4". This meant that instead of the worm getting a full swipe contact with the gears it only caught the edge. All the wear was on one small point of the teeth, thus defeating the whole purpose of the concave machining. There was no fix. The rod that holds the gear runs through an iron block that has no adjustments. The tilt mechanism on the Sawstop is vastly superior to the 66. The rack is much, much, heavier than the 66 and its faithfully cast. Its precisely machined to a full 1 1/8" wide and wraps the larger worm dead center. As a result of the size and precision lavished on it, the tilt mechanism is as smooth as silk. The raising mechanism is unique and works with a power assist gas piston and a massive steel post. It is also very smooth. Most importantly, though I was never satisfied with the run out and crude cuts the 66 produced. Before I sold it I ripped a piece of white oak with a Freud glue line rip blade and saved it. I took the same piece and the same blade and ripped the other side of the piece with a Sawstop industrial. The finish of the cut produced by the Sawstop was far, far smoother than the 66. The 66 has no riving knife. The Sawstop has a beautiful riving knife. Its heavily chromed. Even the cam faces on the handle that locks the riving knife are heavily chromed. The hand cranks are heavily chromed. The 66, along with other saws, access the interior with plastic cowlings (the 66 ‘s cowling is unbelievable flimsy and crude) The Sawstop has a hinged steel cowling with quality latch, as well as a quality steel door on the right also with a quality latch. And of course there is the matter of manuals. The spiral binding, color photos, and logical grammatical English of the Sawstop manual has no peer. And lets not forget about customer service. Sawstop people (real people!) answer their phones starting at 6:00 am PST. This way they can answers calls from the east coast at 9:00 am EST. They have always answered for me by the third ring. Ask anyone about reaching Powermatic customer service! A half an hour on hold is standard. Overall the Sawstop is a superior saw because of its features as a saw. It is the most well and truly made saw I've seen. Oh! the Sawstop also a fantastic safety feature too.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Kapolei Hawaii
    Posts
    3,236
    Ed, PM'ed you.

    Michael, you forgot to mention that the blade guard/anti kickback pawls works very well, better than most.
    Other than that, I think you got most of the major points. LOL

  3. #33
    No, stop being ridiculous. The only reason to purchase a sawstop is so you can be a reckless table saw operator. I don't need no stinking brake going off every five minutes.

    There, I just thought I'd get that out of the way. Great points that no one seems to ever get. It's the best American style table saw money can buy, in my opinion, with or without the brake.
    Last edited by Glenn Clabo; 01-08-2010 at 6:32 AM. Reason: Answers deleted post

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga
    Posts
    113
    I purchased the ICS before the PCS was available. As a hobbyist I would probably have purchased the PCS if it was available but I am happy to have the excuse that the PCS was not available as a reason I purchased the ICS. If I were to be purchasing again, I would buy the ICS.

    I think Michael Case made the best statements about the Sawstop. I can confirm his statements about SS CS. They have always answered the phone quickly or replied to emails thoroughly. I will likely have to store the saw for 2 years. CS gave me very thorough advice on how to do this.

    I can also confirm the ease of adjusting the top. I had almost no prior experience in making such adjustments, but using an alignment tool with a dial indicator I was able to bring the top to within .001" - it was out because I had so do some disassembly to get it through a narrow doorway. It was an easy adjustment. I have had some difficulty adjusting the fence. My dial indicator says it is .003 out. I have to try that again.

    Even though the saw is "safe" I have great respect for the blade and try to follow all the rules. My fingers stay as far away from the blade as possible. I use push sticks where I have seen most others not use them.


    I have very little experience with other brands. I had a portable DeWalt for 7 years. I made a few cuts on friends saws. I purchased the Sawstop because one of my friends, an engineering graduate with extensive experience in table saw use, cut off three fingers with a table saw. To see the accident up close, to see the changes in life, is to get a different perspective on the safety issue. It only takes one little mistake to have that life changing experience.

    I have been fortunate to take a few woodworking classes in the past year. My classmates related some of their experiences with respect to safety. The guy missing part of a thumb now has a SS and wishes he had it before his accident. The guy with part of his index finger missing now has a SS and said the same.

    Sawstop and others now say it is the number one seller in the U.S. Every review I have read of the saw(s?) gives it high scores in every category. It is much safer than other saws while being their near equal or better in accuracy, ease of use, and adjustment. Those must be some of the reasons SS is outselling other brands.

    I guess the above says I am happy with the purchase and would buy the SS again. Do pay attention to the comments Michael Case wrote so well.

  5. #35
    I decided the ICS was the only choice for me. Of course that was because 2 years ago that was the only choice. I have only looked at the PCS once and looks like a good saw at a decent price. As a weekend woodworker I would would probably be tempted to buy the PCS based on price but the one thing I really like about the ICS over other saws I have used is the bigger table. I am really glad there was only one choice when I bought mine.

  6. #36
    To answer your original question "Would you buy one again?"
    - The answer is Yes!

    After having a Craftsman 22124 hybrid saw for 6 years I bought a SawStop PCS a few months back (mainly for safety reasons).
    (Note: The Craftsman "zipcode saw" was a great saw for the $$.)

    Now that I've had the SawStop for some time I can say it's a better tool (albeit 3X more expensive).
    The SawStop has excellent fit and finish, is easy to align and makes smooth accurate cuts.
    Dust collection is good too.

    I'd recommend the SawStop - Just bring money . . . . .

    Billbo
    Smyrna, GA

  7. #37
    i have the ics love it wouldn't trade it for anything ok well maybe a 9 foot slider

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bloomington, IL
    Posts
    6,009
    Same as Guy only I would add a 9' slider and still keep the ICS. Man, I am comfortable using american styled table saws.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

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