Creating database for laser settings...

[douglas rubio]

Girls, girls, please. Claws back in? Thank you.

LOL! Sorry but I was just instigating, I JUST LOVE how Dan is always on the defensive. Dan, I would have you on my team any day of the week baby.

[Scott Shepherd]

Dan, I would have you on my team any day of the week baby.

Careful, he's water cooled and air cooled

[Richard Rumancik]

Stephen, you do need a "database" of some sort for your own machine, whether numerical or samples or both. The normal way to develop it is trial and error. It will probably end up being pretty specific to your machine. And as noted, you will have to tweak settings from job to job (for reasons not always apparent) and as the laser power drops with age.

You will NOT be able to compare values across different brands, nor can you even be sure settings for one model will work for another model within the same manufacturer. If you wanted to kick-start your database you might be able to find someone who has the exact machine that you do, and ask if they will provide you some some settings info. But even then, your (new) 30 watt laser might be putting out 35 watts and their (old) 30 watt might be putting out 24 watts. So at "100% power" there can be quite a variation in the actual energy applied.

Lots of people wish a general database was possible, but until the manufacturers can supply laser systems with true speed and power settings, with speed in inches/sec and power in watts delivered to the material, rather than expressed as a percentage of some ambiguous starting value, I don't think it will be possible.

[Sergio Arze]

I keep my laser engraver settings in a log book. I write down settings such as laser power,speed, and air pressure for each of the materials I work with. Color separation is another good way to keep the settings stored in your PC and you can always go back to your log book to double check

[Stephen Hanlon]

Thank you for the number of replies with some great advice...I have read on the Thermark website of how you can set up a "power grid" graphic template which can give you a grid of power vs speed, but in this case you would need to have enough colours to cover the numbers of squares required for the full grid or enough to cover an area that surrounds the "perceived" optimum power/speed setting.

I am liking the idea of a folder with samples and than the settings and notes attached. We have the Laserpro Spirit GX 60W (measured at 94W) and Rowmark have generic settings for their materials for an Epilog 60W and Trotec 60W on their website. We have picked rowmark first, only through convenience of a local supplier. So we have started by using these settings as a starting point and then will go from there.

The other point to make as well is that as a market appears we can work on optimising the settings as we test materials from different suppliers.

All in all I can say that your responses so far have been very helpful and I thank you for that...I will keep you all posted on how I went with the power grid testing graphic.

Regards, Stephen

[Doug Griffith]

I can see a public database of settings being quite helpful. It would have to be more than just that and provide tools to make the data useful on an individual machine basis.

I started programming an online interface a while back and then realized a few things:
1) There were so many variables that it would take quite a bit of time.
2) Some people consider their settings golden and won't "share with the competition."
3) The largest online community of laser users I knew of was Sawmill Creek and stickies were next to impossible to get. A thread promoting the tool would get buried in a day.
4) An advertisement could be ran on SMC but that costs money. Paying for ad space would require charging for the database and SMC users tend to be on the thrifty side.

About the only way I can see a public database of settings happening is if MANY people contribute to it, it's free, it has machine specific tools, and it's promoted by Sawmill Creek.

Just my thoughts since I think about completing it every now and then.

[Michael Hunter]

A database of "best" settings is not likely to work, as there are just too many variables - between similar machines from the same manufacturer, let alone across the range where different makes calibrate their speed, power and dpi settings in different ways.

What I think would be practical and useful is a database of materials giving basic details about engraving and cutting, a starting point for settings (necessarily vague) and SAFETY information - possibly linking to a materials safety data sheet (MSDS) for the material.

Example :

Common name : HDPE
Full name : High Density Polyethylene
Engraving : NO : very poor results as material just melts
Cutting : YES : high speed, medium power, medium frequency
SAFETY : Fire - flares up easily
Notes : Protect both sides of sheet with masking tape


If it was a goer, I would be happy to provide details of the materials that I have tried and used. Trouble is, even at this basic level there are bound to be disagreements - someone somewhere is certain to produce a photo of a stunning engraving on HDPE!

[Dan Hintz]

Stephen,

If your system is 3D-capable, instead of using colors use grayscale and the 3D power settings... you'll get 16 power blocks to test with, that way, not the 8 usually seen with color.

[Dave Johnson29]

Humidity tends to affect water-cooled tubes more often because the cooling water helps moisture-laden room air to condense on everything.

Dan,
Care to elaborate on that. A bit of research on evaporation and dew points might change your mind. I have one water system (50W) and one air system (25W) and I am converting the air one to water.

If it is a refrigerated cooling system then things might be closer to what you suggest.

I just want the facts, ma'am. <-- Jack Webb in Dragnet TV series.

[Doug Griffith]

A database of "best" settings is not likely to work, as there are just too many variables - between similar machines from the same manufacturer, let alone across the range where different makes calibrate their speed, power and dpi settings in different ways.

What I think would be practical and useful is a database of materials giving basic details about engraving and cutting, a starting point for settings (necessarily vague) and SAFETY information - possibly linking to a materials safety data sheet (MSDS) for the material.

Example :

Common name : HDPE
Full name : High Density Polyethylene
Engraving : NO : very poor results as material just melts
Cutting : YES : high speed, medium power, medium frequency
SAFETY : Fire - flares up easily
Notes : Protect both sides of sheet with masking tape

If it was a goer, I would be happy to provide details of the materials that I have tried and used. Trouble is, even at this basic level there are bound to be disagreements - someone somewhere is certain to produce a photo of a stunning engraving on HDPE!

I think a collective database of any sort would be useful to us all. The problem is that it will not get found or used if not promoted.

Also, if there is enough public/end user data in the database then it would be possible to give "best guess" settings as a starting point. For example, an average could be calculated for a given set of public variables (ie. machine/speed/power/freq/material...), then a formula could be applied based on the end users settings history. It wouldn't even be that much programming. The interface that makes all the data easily accessible is the pain.

I would do it if I knew it would be a sticky in the laser forum.

[Dan Hintz]

If it is a refrigerated cooling system then things might be closer to what you suggest.

Refrigerated... room temp water won't have such an issue, but it also will not have the cooling capabilities many might want for a high-power system (50W+) that runs on a continual basis.

[Richard Rumancik]

..I have read on the Thermark website of how you can set up a "power grid" graphic template which can give you a grid of power vs speed, but in this case you would need to have enough colours to cover the numbers of squares required for the full grid or enough to cover an area that surrounds the "perceived" optimum power/speed setting.

Stephen, if you need more samples you can just create 2 files and run them consecutively. But I don't think you will need a "wide" range of settings. I think you will find the usable settings bunched up. For example, if you want shades of grey, you don't need 50 samples of grey in 2% increments. You may find out that anything less than say 30% is not even useful on a particular material.

The power grid plot is useful when setting up a new job (or repeating an old one). Just set your project file, bring in the settings file, but plot the "power grid" sample first to confirm the laser will deliver what it did last time. If not, find out why - or give up and tweak the settings.

To demonstrate how difficult it is to provide across the board settings, visit this page:
http://www.rowmark.com/MARK/laser_guide/pages/intro.asp

You will have to go 3/4 of the way down the page to SAMPLE SETTINGS (but you may find the other material interesting too.)

Notice how the three machines (which are supposed to be approximately the same power) use widely different settings values. That is because the numbers are quite unique to a machine/manufacturer. (Unfortunately one machine had a different lens.)

I think Rowmark now prefers to give machine-specific guidelines such as what you see here:
http://www.rowmark.com/MARK/techhelp...20settings.asp

I did notice that in the tables, different colors of material may require different settings. I have found that myself - I raster Flexicolor in both Black/white and Red/white, and they do not raster the same. Same with cutting acrylic - different colors = different settings.

Your solution of using a power grid test plot and a sample book, (along with a notebook/computer file of past settings) will work fine.

Check out this old thread as well: www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=95247

[Stephen Hanlon]

Thanks Dan I'll give it a trial in the next couple of weeks...