question on tuning up a Primus #711

[Kevin Perez]

I just bought a used E.C.E. Primus #711 smooth plane, and want to tune it up. The sliding mouth piece (or whatever it's called) needed a slight shim on one side to keep it from turning askew when the lock screw is tightened up. I did that, and it fits square to the mouth now. It also looks like that same piece, when properly positioned, is not flush with the sole, but is a hair shy of it. I need to flatten the sole to make it all flush, right?

Also, it is strange to me, based on my experience with my Veritas planes (and a Stanley #4), that the blade and iron are a good 1/8" narrower than the walls of the plane, and that the side wings of the regulator to adjust the blade square to the sole are no wider than the iron. It seems like the blade is just floating on the bed with no real lateral support. Is this the way it is supposed to be? It seems like if you plane at a skew angle, the blade could be pushed out of square. Based on my metal plane history, it seems like the regulator should touch both inside walls of the plane and that there should be some bearing surface to hold the lower part of the blade in place to allow precision lateral adjustment for squareness to the sole. Am I overthinking all this based on the designs of different tools?

Please help me tune this up so I can use it to make the fine curls my metal planes make. Thanks.

Kevin

[Jim Koepke]

I just bought a used E.C.E. Primus #711 smooth plane, and want to tune it up. The sliding mouth piece (or whatever it's called) needed a slight shim on one side to keep it from turning askew when the lock screw is tightened up. I did that, and it fits square to the mouth now. It also looks like that same piece, when properly positioned, is not flush with the sole, but is a hair shy of it. I need to flatten the sole to make it all flush, right?

Also, it is strange to me, based on my experience with my Veritas planes (and a Stanley #4), that the blade and iron are a good 1/8" narrower than the walls of the plane, and that the side wings of the regulator to adjust the blade square to the sole are no wider than the iron. It seems like the blade is just floating on the bed with no real lateral support. Is this the way it is supposed to be? It seems like if you plane at a skew angle, the blade could be pushed out of square. Based on my metal plane history, it seems like the regulator should touch both inside walls of the plane and that there should be some bearing surface to hold the lower part of the blade in place to allow precision lateral adjustment for squareness to the sole. Am I overthinking all this based on the designs of different tools?

Please help me tune this up so I can use it to make the fine curls my metal planes make. Thanks.

Kevin

Without a picture, it is difficult to understand some of the situations on a plane with which I am not familiar.

Can the sliding mouth piece have another shim or two to flush it up to the sole?

As far as lateral movement is concerned, the blade has to have some freedom of movement or there could be no adjustment.

My experience has shown me that a lot of things that seem like they are going to happen in theory do not happen when the metal hits the wood.

Not sure if this helps.

jim

[Kevin Perez]

Jim-- Good call on the shim issue--I thought of that, but the mouth piece is a hair off in thickness on only one side. If I shimmed it, then it would be a hair proud of the sole on one side, which could make flattening it more difficult. I guess I could just shim one side and see if that would work. It is a tiny amount, but enough that it catches on the wood when there is no blade in place.

I agree on the perceived problems not being problems in practice. I am hoping someone who uses these planes or similar ones can talk me off the ledge.

[Joel Goodman]

I have one of these and there is a lot of air to the sides of the iron. I have considered tapping holes for set screws like the LV, but haven't done so. The lateral adjuster is fairly useless -- just use the blade itself. The spring loaded depth adjustment does function well but requires getting the tension correct on the knob in the back that controls the spring pressure. I have found that I need to keep the chipbreaker a little further back than with my Stanley's to not have clogs. It's an odd design but there is no backlash with the depth adjustment.

[Kevin Perez]

Joel--

How much tension are you using on it? The manual says light tension, but that seems like it might not hold. I have turned it a couple full turns from where it engages the washer on the back of the plane, and seems fine.

[Joel Goodman]

I tend to keep it fairly tight when planing and back it off for storage. To my mind the spring holds the iron against the frog so as long as the depth adjuster is not being too stressed a little tension is a good thing. In mine the chipbreaker seems to bow the iron a touch -- I don't know if that is a design concept or not -- does yours do the same?

[Sandy Stanford]

I just bought a used E.C.E. Primus #711 smooth plane, and want to tune it up. The sliding mouth piece (or whatever it's called) needed a slight shim on one side to keep it from turning askew when the lock screw is tightened up. I did that, and it fits square to the mouth now. It also looks like that same piece, when properly positioned, is not flush with the sole, but is a hair shy of it. I need to flatten the sole to make it all flush, right?

Also, it is strange to me, based on my experience with my Veritas planes (and a Stanley #4), that the blade and iron are a good 1/8" narrower than the walls of the plane, and that the side wings of the regulator to adjust the blade square to the sole are no wider than the iron. It seems like the blade is just floating on the bed with no real lateral support. Is this the way it is supposed to be? It seems like if you plane at a skew angle, the blade could be pushed out of square. Based on my metal plane history, it seems like the regulator should touch both inside walls of the plane and that there should be some bearing surface to hold the lower part of the blade in place to allow precision lateral adjustment for squareness to the sole. Am I overthinking all this based on the designs of different tools?

Please help me tune this up so I can use it to make the fine curls my metal planes make. Thanks.

Kevin

They are purposesly designed with the slight askew "situation" you described. It sets up a 'triangulation' when the plane is adjusted correctly. There is not need to shim it, file the bed, mouth or anything else.

Contact and the U.S. distributor will fill you in on how to set the iron square in the mouth. He has a short document that will walk you through the correct process:

E. C. Emmerich - USA

David Warren
David Warren Direct
7317 Chesterfield Road
Crystal Lake, Illinois 60012
Phone: (800) 724-7758
Fax: (815) 459-6258

e-mail: info@ecemmerich.com

[Kevin Perez]

Joel--I don't recall the iron bowing the blade, but I will check.

Sandy--thanks--I'll check with ECE on setting it up, too.

[Wolfgang Jordan]

Kevin,

there are instructions on the German ECE site (in German and English):

http://www.ecemmerich.de/images/Hinweise_HP.pdf

Wolfgang

[Kevin Perez]

Thanks Wolfgang--that's exactly what I was looking for. I set the blade according to the instructions, and it makes sense now.

[Kevin Perez]

Joel-- My cap iron bows the blade, too. I wonder if it is a method of keeping the blade tight against the two register points on the bed of the plane (the two metal hemispheres) and against the back of the mouth. The design seems to rely on more limited points of contact rather than larger machined surfaces, which is really interesting.

[Kevin Adams]

Kevin, you are correct with your thoughts here. It IS a very different design, no doubt about it, but it works very well. It's one of my go-to planes, especially on cherry--just leaves a beautiful surface on that wood. I actually have several of the ECE's (the rest are the wedged versions) and for the money, I think they are great tools. Consistent quality and they just do a real solid job on most American hardwoods. Personally, I think the Primus is overkill on anything but the smoother. The wedged versions seat directly on the wood bed.

Have fun with your Primus!

Kevin

[Kevin Perez]

Thanks. I may have to try out some of the wedged ones. How easy are fine adjustments for square and depth?