DC Layout

[Bob Haskett]

I will be setting up my DC this weekend and have a few questions. First of all I have the HF 2HP unit, I actually had the 139 coupon and was lucky enough to have the cashier allow me to use my 20% off on top of the coupon, so I ended up getting the accessory kit as well...Anyways back to the questions.

1. I am going to set up 4 or 5 inch PVC ducting, which is better for the HF unit (I plan to do the stovepipe mod as well)?
2. I am going to be running the PVC along the wall, is it ok to run it above the machines and have the flex tube hanging down?
3. I saw this video: Video and at around 3min 40 seconds he talks about using a Y connector to add a shop vac inline with the dust collector. Can someone explain how this works?
4. I have attached a pic of my proposed setup, is this basically how you setup DC?
5. Other than the Bill Pentz site, does anyone have a good DC resource for how to setup the system, build a separator etc? I find the Pentz site is awful to navigate, and way over my head, I just want the basics of design.

[David Kuhnen]

His reference to "Shop-vac" was actually to say he will use a shop-vac "type" hose to extend an additional vacuum hose from the 4" S&D to a spot closer to the blade/cut area. He is not suggesting adding a shop-vac to the system/

[David Kuhnen]

With regard to your other questions:

1.) It's best to match the pipe size to the intake size on the DC. In your case that would be 5". Although 5" is "best" you will have great trouble finding 5" PVC. Most people use 4" with the HFDC

2.) Many people run the Main high on a wall or across the ceiling, this is perfectly acceptable. Try to keep the overall length as short as possible.

3.) addressed above

4.) Your basic setup is fine. Use wye adapters, not tee adapters for the branches, keep lengths short. One consideration is the planer and jointer (two largest creators of dust & chips) should be closest to the collector, with the shortest runs.

5.) Google; Penn State Industries, Grizzly tools, Oneida Air for misc info, Google Phil Thien baffle for separator. You can also do similar searches within this forum

[Alan Schaffter]

I will be setting up my DC this weekend and have a few questions. First of all I have the HF 2HP unit, I actually had the 139 coupon and was lucky enough to have the cashier allow me to use my 20% off on top of the coupon, so I ended up getting the accessory kit as well...Anyways back to the questions.

1. I am going to set up 4 or 5 inch PVC ducting, which is better for the HF unit (I plan to do the stovepipe mod as well)?

First, what is missing is horizontal spacing. A HF DC may not provide the performance you need if the machines are spaced out or if you add machines. 4" will not provide the CFM to collect sufficient fine dust at the machine. Keep your runs short and use 6" S&D you will likely upgrade your DC w/in a year or two at most.

2. I am going to be running the PVC along the wall, is it ok to run it above the machines and have the flex tube hanging down?

Your runs should be as short and straight as absolutely possible, with minimal bends, absolutely no "T's" (wyes only), minimal fittings, and minimal flex. Use 45's or long sweep 90's, NO tight 90's. If the machines are located along one wall, then run the PVC at waist height along the wall. If the machines are spaced out in your shop, run the PVC over head, splitting the machines- do not run along the wall. With a HF DC and the baffle separator, you might want to discharge outside, instead of into a bag filter.

3. Saw this video: Video and at around 3min 40 seconds he talks about using a Y connector to add a shop vac inline with the dust collector. Can someone explain how this works?

Forget that video- for such a small installation he made so many errors!! Actually it doesn't work, at least not nearly as well as a regular shopvac for that size diameter vac pipe.

4. I have attached a pic of my proposed setup, is this basically how you setup DC?

I assume that it is only representational and you won't have T's or 90's. We need to see a top-down view to be able to evaluate your layout.

5. Other than the Bill Pentz site, does anyone have a good DC resource for how to setup the system, build a separator etc? I find the Pentz site is awful to navigate, and way over my head, I just want the basics of design.[/LIST]

The Pentz site is the best source, online or otherwise. Though it has numerous errors and some bad advice, the next best source of info is Sandor Nagyszalanczy's "Wood Shop Dust Control". If you don't learn how to do it right you are just wasting your money, and not getting the collection or protection you need.
.

[Bob Haskett]

Maybe I should back up and explain my setup. First, I have half of a two car garage. If you are facing my garage door from the outside, I have the left half of the garage. Top down view is attached. What if I used that stovepipe stuff instead of PVC? My home depot has it in 5" for cheap.

As for the minimal lengths, all my tools are along that left wall. The furthest any tool could be away from the DC is about 20 feet. My ceilings are 12 foot high, but, I have shelving all along the wall 8 feet high all the way around the garage. what if I ran the piping up the wall from the DC, right under the shelving, using wye connectors to drop more piping down about a foot above each machine, then use the flex hose from that point to the machines? Or is there a better way to do this? I want to do it right as you said, but I see so many contradictory things out on the web that I cant get my head around what to do.

Tools I have, or will have soon are as follows:

Ridgid R4511 table saw
Grizzly G1182HW 6" Jointer
Ridgid 6" ROS or the Bosch 5"
Dewalt DW734 Planer
HF 2HP DC
and my router/table is linked below
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/208...ter-Table.aspx

[Alan Schaffter]

As for the minimal lengths, all my tools are along that left wall. The furthest any tool could be away from the DC is about 20 feet. My ceilings are 12 foot high, but, I have shelving all along the wall 8 feet high all the way around the garage. what if I ran the piping up the wall from the DC, right under the shelving, using wye connectors to drop more piping down about a foot above each machine, then use the flex hose from that point to the machines? Or is there a better way to do this? I want to do it right as you said, but I see so many contradictory things out on the web that I cant get my head around what to do.

Yup a lot of bad advice on the web for sure! Are your machines on mobile bases and moved to the center of the left bay when you use them? If not and they will remain along the left wall or relatively close to it, then you can and should run the duct along the wall at about knee or waist height. Why add nearly 16' extra (8' up + 8' down) duct if you don't need to? You can have your pipe at machine height and DC height which is ideal for a straight shot into the DC- absolutely the best layout for CFM. And you will save $ by not needing any pipe for drops. Just attach blast gates and short lengths of flex directly to the wye fittings. If you want to be able to get your machines tight against the wall, then run the main an inch or so above the highest machine. I didn't know they made stove pipe wye fittings. Make sure they are not low velocity wyes. If you can get 45 straight or curved wyes (NOT 'T') fittings for the 5" stove pipe then go for it. Are you sure it is cheaper than S&D? S&D PVC pipe costs about the same as the thicker and heavier Sched 40 PVC, but S&D fittings are much cheaper. If it were me, I'd put the baffle separator or cyclone at the end of the run, just inside the back wall (so you can monitor it to see when it is full) and run the pipe through the wall to the DC outside (in a closet, under a lean-to, etc.) where you would discharge outside with no CFM robbing filter. You then have just about the best setup possible with your hardware.

[Kent A Bathurst]

IMO you have a workable solution, with the 20' max. I'd definitely use the 5" main - 4" main leaves money on the table, 6" main has more volume to move. Use wyes from main to a 4", then a 4" 45* to avoid sharp curves. With the main @ only 12" above the machines, you have shortened the distance. Plus, under the shelves, you are not going up to the ceiling and back down the wall - eliminated 8' from each run right there. Since the intake on your DC is floor-level, if you could run the main at floor level, even better.

Roughly, 1 foot of flex has the same "pull" at the machine as 2 feet of solid. If you could run solid from the main out to the edge of the shelves - every little bit helps - but I'm not sure you would gain a lot on that one.


Also - blast gates at each machine - so you are pulling from only one at a time.

As noted earlier, You can gain some yardage off machine location also. The planer puts out one hellacious volume - put it closest to DC if you can. Router is least - put it farthest away.

Last - not picking a fight guys - don't get all wrapped around the axle here. You are in a modest, but nice, space. You have nice equipment, but not gigantic. I have read the Pentz info, I have Sandor N's book - good stuff there, but I did fine well before I read those. Don't sweat all the complicated stuff. It is all too easy to overdrive your headlights on this.

EDIT: Alan snuck in while I was typing. We said many of the same things.

[Bob Haskett]

Yup a lot of bad advice on the web for sure! Are your machines on mobile bases and moved to the center of the left bay when you use them? If not and they will remain along the left wall or relatively close to it, then you can and should run the duct along the wall at about knee or waist height. Why add nearly 16' extra (8' up + 8' down) duct if you don't need to? You can have your pipe at machine height and DC height which is ideal for a straight shot into the DC- absolutely the best layout for CFM. And you will save $ by not needing any pipe for drops. Just attach blast gates and short lengths of flex directly to the wye fittings. If you want to be able to get your machines tight against the wall, then run the main an inch or so above the highest machine. I didn't know they made stove pipe wye fittings. Make sure they are not low velocity wyes. If you can get 45 straight or curved wyes (NOT 'T') fittings for the 5" stove pipe then go for it. Are you sure it is cheaper than S&D? S&D PVC pipe costs about the same as the thicker and heavier Sched 40 PVC, but S&D fittings are much cheaper. If it were me, I'd put the baffle separator or cyclone at the end of the run, just inside the back wall (so you can monitor it to see when it is full) and run the pipe through the wall to the DC outside (in a closet, under a lean-to, etc.) where you would discharge outside with no CFM robbing filter. You then have just about the best setup possible with your hardware.

Thanks Kent and Alan. Ideally, I would like to keep my machines tight against the wall when not in use, but have the ability to roll them out to the center when in-use. They all have mobile bases. I would like to have the option of parking on that side if it comes to that, so I think I need to run it along the wall rather than overhead.

I am not sure about the stovepipe answers, I know they have 45 degree adjustable bends, but maybe no wye fittings. I would have to look. As far as PVC goes, I have read TONS of contradictory info on the web about static, what do I beleive?

Unfortunately running it outside is not an option, that wall that my tools are on is an external brick wall, about 20 feet from my property line.

So it sounds like the best thing to do is to run the S&D 5" PVC from the DC, up to about 1-2 inches above the highest machine, straight down the wall, with wye fittings at each machine, with blast gates in between that, and about 8-10 feet (so I can roll it out to the middle) of the flex hose correct? Or is 8-10 feet too much flex?

According to you guys I believe the machine order should be:

DC->Planer->Jointer->TS->Router

My last question would be, what would I do so that I can hook my hand tools (ROS etc) up to the DC? Should I just use my shop vac for that? And also, I am getting a Sharkguard for my TS, should that be on my DC or shopvac? If DC, then how should I run the tubing to that?

[David Hostetler]

To try to answer your questions...

I am going to set up 4 or 5 inch PVC ducting, which is better for the HF unit (I plan to do the stovepipe mod as well)?

5 inch is best, but I have never seen 5 inch PVC. Ever. Some guys are making intake flanges for the HF DC to accept a 6" pipe, and while Bill Pentz argues that the impeller isn't big enough, or the motor strong enough to make it work, the results from the guys doing it argue against Bill pretty strongly. I am using 4" which works pretty well, but isn't perfect.

I am going to be running the PVC along the wall, is it ok to run it above the machines and have the flex tube hanging down?

That is how most folks do it, I was actually planning on running mine about halfway up the wall as I will be having all my dust producers along one wall, and then and adjacent wall. That DOES take up valuable space on the wall though... Ceiling mount is perfectly fine...

I saw this video: Video and at around 3min 40 seconds he talks about using a Y connector to add a shop vac inline with the dust collector. Can someone explain how this works?

It does and doesn't. Yes you can tee off to a 2.5" hose port which I do at my band saw, and table saw to catch dust on top of the table, but to say that the 2.5" port on a dust collection system is going to have the same suction power known as static lift that a vacuum does is not accurate. Use a shop vac for floor cleanup, use a dust collector to collect dust...

Other than the Bill Pentz site, does anyone have a good DC resource for how to setup the system, build a separator etc? I find the Pentz site is awful to navigate, and way over my head, I just want the basics of design.

I have all the respect in the world for Bill, and his incredible work. Having said that, I need to emphasize that Bill is an engineer. If you've ever known, or worked with engineers, they tend to overdo everything. And some of Bill's information given is contradictory (He claims the HF 2HP DC isn't powerful enough to provide effective dust collection, yet he goes into detail on converting this very machine with the Wynn filter etc...). Again, I chalk this up to an engineer's approach, and God bless him, he has done more for the average woodworkers understanding of dust collection than all the DC vendors combined, but some of his stuff is just over the top, having said that, to answer your questions...

There is a pretty good book called "Workshop Dust Control" that you may way to read.

As far as separators go, Google "Thien Cyclone" and follow the links to Phil Thien's site.

To make it plain and simple though, the best suggestions for setting up are...

#1. Increase the airflow the best you can. The stovepipe mod, and Canister filter conversion are great ways to improve airflow against stock.
#2. Improve filtration level. Again, the canister filter conversion is the way to go. You can go with a 1 micron bag, but canisters flow air better...
#3. Keep the air flow going, instead of dropping with use. This is where a separator comes in. I use a Thien cyclone based on a 55 gallon drum. I have emptied the drum countless times, and have had less than a cup of material bypass the separator.
#4. Keep your plumbing as short, and straight as possible.
#5. If you HAVE to make a bend with the plumbing, make it as gradual as possible, with a long sweep elbow, or even better, 2 45 bends with a segment of pipe between...
#6. Do NOT use Tee fittings, use Y fittings, with the curve going toward the DC to keep things flowing smoothly...
#7. Keep your blast gates as close to the Y fitting branch as possible. You don't want your DC sucking up any more dead air space than it has to.
#8. Keep flex hose to an absolute minimum. All those ridges and valleys in that hose induce turbulence in the air flow, which in turn slows it down.

I am currently running 4" but do plan on upgrading my DC flange / Thien cyclone and main trunk to 6", then as I come to the Y reduce the branch to 4" to the machine.

Keep watching the forums and see what others are doing with the machines you need to collect from. Results are what we want here, not fancies... For example my band saw DC pickup is a hunk of 4" S&D pipe on a pine mount block mounted directly under the table by the lower blade guide assembly... My biggest DC problem now is the lathe... I need to grab a Big Gulp hood on a stand to move between the lathe and miter saw (that's mobile...)

[Alan Schaffter]

Thanks Kent and Alan. Ideally, I would like to keep my machines tight against the wall when not in use, but have the ability to roll them out to the center when in-use. They all have mobile bases. I would like to have the option of parking on that side if it comes to that, so I think I need to run it along the wall rather than overhead.

So, will mounting on the wall, a few inches above the highest tool work then, great! If you need to, raise your separator or DC up so everything is a straight shot. People often don't realize how bends and fitting rob their system of CFM.

I am not sure about the stovepipe answers, I know they have 45 degree adjustable bends, but maybe no wye fittings. I would have to look. As far as PVC goes, I have read TONS of contradictory info on the web about static, what do I believe?

Believe Rod Cole (Google him) and believe static, other than maybe being a nuisance (usually goes away as the system seasons) will NOT, NO WAY, NO HOW, cause fire or explosion in a home DC system. Trust me on this one!

Unfortunately running it outside is not an option, that wall that my tools are on is an external brick wall, about 20 feet from my property line.

I didn't mean put the entire run outside, I meant run the end of the pipe out the back wall of the garage.

So it sounds like the best thing to do is to run the S&D 5" PVC from the DC, up to about 1-2 inches above the highest machine, straight down the wall, with wye fittings at each machine, with blast gates in between that, and about 8-10 feet (so I can roll it out to the middle) of the flex hose correct? Or is 8-10 feet too much flex?

You will likely not find PVC S&D in 5". I have seen it in 3", 4", and 6", but never 5". That doesn't mean it isn't available, because I have never looked hard for it. If the price on the stove pipe is good, you might see if the big box stores carry 5" HVAC wyes that you can use. By the way, we are not talking true wyes, we are talking a straight through with a 45 branch.

8' - 10' is a bit excessive, but if you layout your main branch the way I suggest, it should be ok. Your garage bay is only about 10' - 12' wide so I would think would need only 6' of flex to reach a machine in the middle of the left bay.

According to you guys I believe the machine order should be:

DC->Planer->Jointer->TS->Router

I would go: DC, Planer, TS, jointer, router. Planer puts out lots of chips, TS puts out much more dust that the others, jointer less chips and much less dust, and due to cabinet, fence, etc. it is easier to capture the dust.

My last question would be, what would I do so that I can hook my hand tools (ROS etc) up to the DC? Should I just use my shop vac for that? And also, I am getting a Sharkguard for my TS, should that be on my DC or shopvac? If DC, then how should I run the tubing to that?

ROS and other small tools like routers, biscuit jointers, circular saw, etc- most definitely shopvac! With the small ports they need lots of static pressure suction (shopvac) vs lots of CFM (DC).

Sharkguard- depends on the port size. Anything less than 3" go with shopvac also. The big disadvantage of a shopvac are (1) noise (I put mine in a cabinet- see pic) and (2) clogged filter (see next item).

You might look into a mini-cyclone for your shopvac- improves suction and greatly extends the time between filter cleaning for a shopvac. You can get the cyclone only from Oneida for a very reasonable cost of $59 and put it on your own bucket. Well worth the expense!!!

[Kent A Bathurst]

Bob:

1. Static - yes a lot of contradictory info. Personally, with plastic I would absolutely run the ground wire. Very first time I ran my planer, as I walked past the suspended flex, I got a static shock from a couple inches away. My flex has wire coil - I strip the wire at both ends and use wire + alligator clips as jumper to metal pipe + machine. Don't know if ka-boom is legit risk or not, but I didn't want to take phaser fire in my own shop.
2. I think the DC is prolly way too much vac for efficient ROS operations.
3. I'd advise sharkguard hookup to DC - you'll have it on anyway; might as well use it + better collection for that volume of air. May do better in #2 slot, after planer, before jointer.
4. IMO - If you don't go with 5" main, then use 6" (not 4"). You don't want to restrict the flow.
5. Put the blast gates wherever most convenient. Sounds like you might want quick-connects between (a) flex and hard pipe, or (b) between machine and flex - lets you unhook and roll machine to hell-and-gone if needed. You have to leave the blast gate behind, of course, so that may make the blast gate location obvious.
6. Your flex hose should be as short as practical - you have to leave room to work comfortably. Do your best, then don't sweat it.

David just made some good points. You don't have to upgrade to get started. If/when you do, my first move would be a separator - Thein or store-bought. Then upgrade filter. My personal belief/experience is that OEM filters like yours are undersized by at least half in terms of surface sf. I quadrupled mine - big increase in volume + performance. Canisters look great - I don't have one, but someday may upgrade - down they list below LN7, LN4-1/2, the.....well, you get the point.

EDIT: Alan must have a video cam in my shop - every time I start to reply, he sneaks in front.

[Bob Haskett]

You will likely not find PVC S&D in 5". I have seen it in 3", 4", and 6", but never 5". That doesn't mean it isn't available, because I have never looked hard for it. If the price on the stove pipe is good, you might see if the big box stores carry 5" HVAC wyes that you can use. By the way, we are not talking true wyes, we are talking a straight through with a 45 branch.

So would you recommend going to 6" and take it down to 4" at the DC and at the Ys for the machines to fit the Y adapter on the DC and 4" ports on the equipment? Or do you recommend going with the 5" stovepipe with HVAC adapters (if available?)

8' - 10' is a bit excessive, but if you layout your main branch the way I suggest, it should be ok. Your garage bay is only about 10' - 12' wide so I would think would need only 6' of flex to reach a machine in the middle of the left bay.

6 should work I will just do 6.

I would go: DC, Planer, TS, jointer, router. Planer puts out lots of chips, TS puts out much more dust that the others, jointer less chips and much less dust, and due to cabinet, fence, etc. it is easier to capture the dust.

Ok and do the separator at the end correct? If so, wouldnt I have to run a tube to each machine then to the separator then a tube allllll the way back to the DC? Wouldnt it be easier to have the separator right next to the DC to keep the run short?

ROS and other small tools like routers, biscuit jointers, circular saw, etc- most definitely shopvac! With the small ports they need lots of static pressure suction (shopvac) vs lots of CFM (DC).

Sounds easy enough, I will check out the $59 cyclone as well!

Sharkguard- depends on the port size. Anything less than 3" go with shopvac also. The big disadvantage of a shopvac are (1) noise (I put mine in a cabinet- see pic) and (2) clogged filter (see next item).

I believe the sharkguard I am ordering is 4". So would I need two separate wye adaptors off the main tube? Or split off the main tube and split AGAIN to go to the guard?

[Alan Schaffter]

So would you recommend going to 6" and take it down to 4" at the DC and at the Ys for the machines to fit the Y adapter on the DC and 4" ports on the equipment? Or do you recommend going with the 5" stovepipe with HVAC adapters (if available?)




6 should work I will just do 6.

Go with what is available and cheapest- my choices in order: 6", 5" 4". You just lose too much CFM with 4". Look at the cross sectional areas: 6" = 28.2 sq. in., 5" = 19.6 sq. in., 4" = 12.5 sq. in.

[QUOTE]Ok and do the separator at the end correct? If so, wouldnt I have to run a tube to each machine then to the separator then a tube allllll the way back to the DC? Wouldnt it be easier to have the separator right next to the DC to keep the run short?[QUOTE]

The separator would be at the DC- put both at the back of the garage or outside the back of the garage. Your main would start at the front of the garage or at the first machine from the front, have ports for each machine, then run into the separator which is piped to the DC. You should have a port for each machine or port for each pair of machines if you want to share and move the hose between the two.

Sounds easy enough, I will check out the $59 cyclone as well!

I believe the sharkguard I am ordering is 4". So would I need two separate wye adaptors off the main tube? Or split off the main tube and split AGAIN to go to the guard?

You can do it either way, but if you have two wyes on the main, then you need two blast gates. It also depends on how you rig your over-blade pickup. Will it be attached to a saw-mounted arm, or attached to the ceiling etc. If you run a 6" main, I would have a 6 x 6 x 6 wye inline with the main with blast gate on the wye, then depending on hour you rig the guard, a 6 X 6 X 4 wye at the saw.

[Alan Schaffter]

David, you have some good suggestions here, but I strongly disagree with a few noted below:

while Bill Pentz argues that the impeller isn't big enough, or the motor strong enough to make it work, the results from the guys doing it argue against Bill pretty strongly. I am using 4" which works pretty well, but isn't perfect.

"Works" must be defined. If you mean picks up most of the chips, and some of the fine dust" you are right. What Bill means is that DC does not provide enough CFM to collect the volume of air and the fine, most hazardous, .5 - 10 um dust which is invisible to the eye, escapes at the source unseen into the air right where you are breathing. That DC just won't do it.

Ceiling mount is perfectly fine...

I wouldn't do it in a garage with 12' ceilings. You are making the dust leaving each machine travel an extra 24' (12' up and 12' down) and that just puts too much a load on an already over-taxed DC.

but to say that the 2.5" port on a dust collection system is going to have the same suction power known as static lift that a vacuum does is not accurate. Use a shop vac for floor cleanup, use a dust collector to collect dust...

The volume of dust/air actually collected by a shopvac through a 2.5" port exceeds what a DC will pull, especially the OP's DC. In Bob's case he is better off using both- DC to the cabinet and shopvac to the guard. Many folks are doing this with CMS/SCMS as well.

I have all the respect in the world for Bill, and his incredible work. Having said that, I need to emphasize that Bill is an engineer. If you've ever known, or worked with engineers, they tend to overdo everything. And some of Bill's information given is contradictory (He claims the HF 2HP DC isn't powerful enough to provide effective dust collection, yet he goes into detail on converting this very machine with the Wynn filter etc...). Again, I chalk this up to an engineer's approach, and God bless him, he has done more for the average woodworkers understanding of dust collection than all the DC vendors combined, but some of his stuff is just over the top, having said that, to answer your questions...

See comment about "works" above.

#1. Increase the airflow the best you can. The stovepipe mod, and Canister filter conversion are great ways to improve airflow against stock.
#2. Improve filtration level. Again, the canister filter conversion is the way to go. You can go with a 1 micron bag, but canisters flow air better...

I must STRONGLY disagree here. Adding a canister filter is about the worse thing Bob can do to "improve air flow". Any filter will restrict air flow, killing collection "at the source" and a clogged filter, any filter, restricts to the point where the DC is near useless. The best thing he can do is add a separator to remove as much as possible, then discharge outside with absolutely NO FILTER WHATSOEVER. Hopefully his separator will remove enough chips and dust so he has only a little powder on his lawn behind the garage. Canisters are expensive, and unless you have excellent pre-separation, they fill with dust the same way a bag does, only slower. That is why many are supplied with a beater or wiping mechanism. But cartridges are much harder to clean and don't last if you regularly clean them- the filtering capacity begins to degrade from the moment of first cleaning. Since Bob is working in a garage he doesn't need to filter and return air to the shop or worry about heat/cooling issues.

#3. Keep the air flow going, instead of dropping with use. This is where a separator comes in. I use a Thien cyclone based on a 55 gallon drum. I have emptied the drum countless times, and have had less than a cup of material bypass the separator.
#4. Keep your plumbing as short, and straight as possible.
#5. If you HAVE to make a bend with the plumbing, make it as gradual as possible, with a long sweep elbow, or even better, 2 45 bends with a segment of pipe between...
#6. Do NOT use Tee fittings, use Y fittings, with the curve going toward the DC to keep things flowing smoothly...

Now you are talking- right on!

#7. Keep your blast gates as close to the Y fitting branch as possible. You don't want your DC sucking up any more dead air space than it has to.

Oops. The blast gates can be anywhere. Put them near the machine/where they are reachable. The DC does not see nor care if a branch has a closed blast gate at 1' or 15' from the main. There is no such thing as "sucking . . dead air space."

#8. Keep flex hose to an absolute minimum. All those ridges and valleys in that hose induce turbulence in the air flow, which in turn slows it down.

I am currently running 4" but do plan on upgrading my DC flange / Thien cyclone and main trunk to 6", then as I come to the Y reduce the branch to 4" to the machine.

If the DC will support 4000 fpm at each machine, then don't reduce the pipe at all. In fact in addition to running 6" all the way to the machine, open the machine port to 6". The flow through a 4" is less than half that through a 6" pipe!!! You see reduced diameter piping for two reasons- in restaurants, to balance HVAC flow between runs of various lengths, in commercial and large WW shops to balance DC flow among branches when more than one machine is using the DC at the same time, and secondly, and likely not applicable to Bob's installation, to ensure there is 4000 fpm flow to keep the dust particles in suspension so they don't settle and eventually clog the duct. There is no reason for Bob to reduce the size of his ducting or flex.

Keep watching the forums and see what others are doing with the machines you need to collect from. Results are what we want here, not fancies... For example my band saw DC pickup is a hunk of 4" S&D pipe on a pine mount block mounted directly under the table by the lower blade guide assembly... My biggest DC problem now is the lathe... I need to grab a Big Gulp hood on a stand to move between the lathe and miter saw (that's mobile...)

But be careful, a lot of folks don't know what they are doing or talking about.

My bandsaw pickup is similar. I removed the tiny plastic pickup, the used the existing holes and bolts that attach the fence rails to the table to mount two pieces of angle iron to the table. The angle irons support a piece of plywood that can slide in and out. A homemade sheet metal shroud mounts to the plywood and transitions to the 6" flex. The back of the table is open to provide a source of take-up air. With this setup I can still tilt the table and also easily remove the pickup to adjust the lower guides or change the blade.

[Bob Haskett]

Ok, I am really sorry, but I have a few more questions. I hate to have you keep answering questions but I am trying to get this right.

So I went to HD, it looks like I am going to have to do 5" PVC. There are hardly any fittings for the stovepipe, and I did not see any 6" PVC.

As for having it exit out the back, also not possible as behind that garage is my laundry room, and behind that is my Master bedroom, the garage is on the front of the house.

1. I was planning to put the Wynn 35A filter on, is that not a good idea?
2. You said you would put a 6" x 6" x 4" at the saw. Wouldnt I need a 6x4x4 (or in my case now a 5x4x4)? My saw's dust port is 4 inches and the guard will be 4 inches
3. Is there any difference in the Thien seperator top and the one that Woodcraft sells? I know his home made unit has a bottom baffle but does that help quite a bit?
4. How do you open a machine up from 4 to 5 inch dust port? My TS for example?
5. If you can't open the machine up, then do you run 4 inch flex from the 5 main?
6. I hope I did not offend anyone with my comment on Bill's site. I am not saying he is wrong, or that his site sucks, or anything. I just find it hard to navigate, and I have not really found any concrete info that helps me plan my dust collection. Certainly the work he has done helps all woodworkers, I am just looking to put it in perspective.