Anybody affected by the Toyota recall/stop selling order?

[Michael Gibbons]

When I heard about the family in California that called 911 and were traveling over 100 mph headed for a dead end, my first thought was, if you know you are headed for a crash, why not pop the trans into neutral? So what if it burns the engine up??? Then when I heard that that driver was a California Highway Patrol officer, I was really confused. If someone that has been trained to think under extreme stress situations can't think to do this, how is anyone else going to? If anyone had a chance of recovering in that situation, I would think someone in that position would have the second best chance, right behind fighter pilots. Jim.

Or just turn the ignition off?

[Michael Gibbons]

Many of those cars have the keyless ignition, where you don't have a key, you have a fob that stays in your pocket. There's a button on the dash that you push to start the car (you also have to have the fob in your pocket).

However, to turn the engine off, on some cars you have to hold the button in for three seconds. Additionally, if you turn the ignition off, you lose your power steering and power brakes. While you can steer the car without power steering, it takes a lot more force. Some people may not be able to steer, and others may be surprised by the force required and think the steering is locked.

Safer to just put the car in neutral, brake and steer to the side of the road.

Mike

Technology gone too far can be dangerous,eh? Keyless ignition? May make the auto companies think about putting them in any future vehicles.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Or just turn the ignition off?

Push-button ignition switches incur a 3 second delay. Long enough to hit something.
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[Mitchell Andrus]

Why wouldn't one just turn the ignition to off?

You loose power steering and brakes. For my grandma, that would be a problem.
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[Matt Meiser]

Sounds like the fix is going to be announced Monday. Hope they get it right. 5 days from not knowing what was wrong to knowing how to fix it is a pretty quick turnaround not leaving much time for testing. If they get it wrong its going to be worse than waiting another week, PR-wise.

Also interesting in that article, since Consumer Reports was mentioned in this thread:

"The influential magazine Consumer Reports suspended its "recommended" status for the eight recalled Toyota models and for the Pontiac Vibe, which has also been recalled because it shares Toyota underpinnings."

I'm sure that will be temporary.

Regarding the pushbutton ignition--I once saw a test vehicle with a big red e-stop on the dash. Wonder if NHTSA will eventually require a kill-switch like the TPMS systems mentioned in the other Toyota thread?

[Paul Douglass]

LOL, the like reading a discussion about religion!

[Paul Ryan]

I have looked at a few cars with the push button ignition. Nothing for mechaincal or insurance issues. I though about turning the car off the minute I saw it. I wouldn't be caught dead in a car like that. It is one thing to have a electronic throttle. But no electric steering or keyless ignition for me. You need to have a way to quickly shut off the car. Manufactures have been playing around with electic steering for years. It hasn't hit the market yet for 2 reasons. Electical loads on the generating system and saftey issues.

[Glenn Clabo]

We have two cars...it's alot easier, safer and faster to turn the car off with the push button (Volvo) one than the key'd one (Dodge). I need to reach up in my line of sight and push a button (which shuts off the engine right then btw) or feel for and grab a key...out of my line of sight...and turn it. No way you can turn our key'd car off faster.

[Pat Germain]

But no electric steering or keyless ignition for me. You need to have a way to quickly shut off the car.

I agree with you, Paul. But, then again, I recall old-timers saying similar things about power steering, power brakes and automatic transmissions.

[Neal Clayton]

There is a sad theme to this that for some reason all of the car manufacturers fail to realize.

The 2nd most expensive thing the average person buys in their liftetime is a car. As such, it tends to be bought on a long buy cycle. I often go 10-15 years between buying vehicles.

you would think that, and it is like that in most parts of the world. but in the US gm specifically has tried their damndest to get people to buy throw away cars and trade them in every two years.

[Dave Johnson29]

However, to turn the engine off, on some cars you have to hold the button in for three seconds.

Thanks for that Mike. Shows that I drive a 1995 truck I guess. No key, no go.

[Curt Harms]

not have a mechanism to return the engine to idle when the brake is pushed as mentioned? The switch is already there-cruise control disconnect. Just tie it into the engine computer.

[Mitchell Andrus]

not have a mechanism to return the engine to idle when the brake is pushed as mentioned? The switch is already there-cruise control disconnect. Just tie it into the engine computer.

I don't know any mfgr that does that. Lack of imagination... let go of the gas pedal, the pedal rises.

I have pieced together that - possibly - corrosion on a tightly wound return spring is the culprit. I can see how the spring's windings may bind if rusty. This also explains how the pedal doesn't cause the car to suddenly accelerate, but merely continues to accelerate.
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[Mike Henderson]

Technology gone too far can be dangerous,eh? Keyless ignition? May make the auto companies think about putting them in any future vehicles.

I have a car with keyless ignition. It's the greatest thing since sliced bread. When I get into a car with a key, I feel like I'm going back to the dark ages.

It's also great for locking and unlocking the car. You just walk up to the car and (on mine) push a button on the door handle and the car unlocks. Same to lock it. Some cars lock automatically when you walk away from them and all you have to do to unlock it is pull on the door handle (as long as you have the fob in your pocket).

Things that you do all the time (like using a key) provide great value when they're improved. Improvements in something that you do once a year don't have that much value and people won't pay for it.

Once you drive a car with keyless ignition, you'll never go back. I expect that (essentially) ALL cars will have that feature soon. It's so convenient that everyone will demand it.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I don't know any mfgr that does that. Lack of imagination... let go of the gas pedal, the pedal rises.

I have pieced together that - possibly - corrosion on a tightly wound return spring is the culprit. I can see how the spring's windings may bind if rusty. This also explains how the pedal doesn't cause the car to suddenly accelerate, but merely continues to accelerate.
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The reports on the Toyota problem have indicated that a number of car manufacturers have a "fail safe" mechanism in their accelerator circuits. The fail safe detects if the brake is pushed while the engine if above a certain RPM, and if so, brings the engine to idle.

For some reason, Toyota never put that fail safe in their cars. News reports indicate that Toyota will put this fail safe into cars as part of a software upgrade. They did not indicate that it would be part of the recall, but indicated that the update would take place when normal service is done. (If I recall correctly)

Mike