Anybody affected by the Toyota recall/stop selling order?

[Matt Meiser]

Makes me wonder if someday Ken might say "Toyota got their poor reputation by earning it. The cars they made in the 00's and 10's and their poor calloused attitude towards their customers that went with it sank their boat."

None of this is new, like I said a Toyota engineer told me the same thing Walt mentions 18 months ago. Its just coming to light because its become to big for the media to ignore.

I wonder how long it will be before Dateline NBC duct tapes a brick to a gas pedal to demonstrate how dangerous Toyota's are?

[Paul Ryan]

There is a very good article in the Wall Street Journal today titled "Too Big Too Soon" that chronicles Toyota's rise because of their dedication to quality and how that quality so quickly eroded when they took their eye off the ball and became consumed with being #1. The quarterly sales count to see if they were ahead of GM clouded everything else. As a result we are now seeing all of the class action suits for frames rusting through, Prius's losing brakes and going through horribly expensive headlights like a baby through diapers, over 3 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles bought back by the factory because of engine sludge problems, and on and on. Quality has no direct relationship to the country a product is produced in. It has a direct relationship to the corporate policy of the manufacturing company itself. There are some incredibly high quality tools that come from the East shipped on the same boat with some real junk. The difference is "standards". Some of the U.S. mfgs finally woke up and are indeed building vehicles with quality equal to, and in many cases better that the foreign rivals. Although I agree with the fact that buying an "import" built in the U.S. provides jobs for our neighbors, it still bothers me that the majority of the money that is paid for the vehicle (profit) does in fact leave the USA and goes to the parent company in a foreign land. Just old fashioned I guess.

Walt,

I could not agree with you any more. That is exactly what I have been saying for years now. And I was dumb enough to buy a toyota. I worked throught the years of every 604 tranny in a caravan needing replacement. Every 41LE tranny in a intrepid needing replacement. It was just stupid that chrysler didn't poor testing on the materials used to produce that those machines. However they have finally gotten their act together. After 00 the amount of tranmission failures I see in chryslers is very very small. But it took 15 years for them to figure it out. How many customers did they loose over that time, trying to be cheap.

General motors suffered through and in some ways is still finally getting out of the same symptoms that toyota is going throught right now. Quality control over suppliers.

IMHO just because toyota, honda, VW, or other car is assembled on our soil doesn't make it a us car. The vast majority of the design and part production is still done over seas. And the bank accounts aren't on our soil. Unlike a many domestic cars that are designed here and assembled in meixco or canada.

It appears that it is not a software problem, but a mechiancal one at that. The recall was expanded yesterday and it does effect almost all of the cars that they tried to repair with the floor matt recall. I guess it is the pedel itself that can become stuck. Not once have I seen any lexus metioned as being recalled for a electrical problem with a pedal that went full throttle on by its own.

I wouldn't start patting toyota on the back for shutting down production and sales. The only reason they did that was to save themselves money and more lawsuits. It wasn't because they were thinking "we don't sell stuff like that." They would have done anything to stop from shutting down, but since this has gone on for so long now, they had to do something.

[Curt Harms]

It's been reported that the gas pedal assembly in question was made in Elkhart IN. That's what they're checking for on the vehicles that were sent to the EU which apparently are also involved.

I'm not convinced that this has anything to do with where a company is based.

to cut down on the parts purchased from U.S. suppliers? The accelerator part made by Denso in Japan appears to not have this problem.

[Joe Cunningham]

Great my mom buys her first new car in 38 years (a Toyota Venza) because the local dealership is one of the highest rated in the region, and it has a serious recall not 10 months later.

If the local Ford dealer wasn't so horrible, she would have stuck with Ford. The local GM dealer closed, and Chrysler was looking shaky at the time she was shopping.

Me, I'm very happy with my Jeep. I like having a clutch too--stuck accelerator? Push in the clutch, just like I always do when stepping on the brake coming to a stop.

[Mark Patoka]

Back to the original question - we bought an '09 Matrix last year that is on the recall list. Haven't received any communication from Toyota yet but haven't had any problems either.

Since my wife drives it primarily, I did ask her if she knew what to do in case the gas pedal stuck. Yep, put it in neutral. The same thing happened to her dad many years ago in the family truckster and that's what he did. Now if she remembers to do that in the split second it happens in bumper to bumper traffic is another story.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Folks,

Let's look at this.

First they have to find a solution. There appears to be 2 totally unrelated problems.

Then they have to manufacture parts for the solution or find some company with those parts in stock...which isn't going to happen in this day and age.

In short, because of the sheer number of vehicles involved, this will take a while.

[Paul Ryan]

Folks,

Let's look at this.

First they have to find a solution. There appears to be 2 totally unrelated problems.

Then they have to manufacture parts for the solution or find some company with those parts in stock...which isn't going to happen in this day and age.

In short, because of the sheer number of vehicles involved, this will take a while.

Ken is right,

It usually takes months before a large number of vehicles start getting fixed. When I was writting service years ago, the evening news would talk about a recall, the next day we would have customers calling. It would usually be a couple of weeks before we got our 1st parts and it would be a long waiting list. We usually only got a couple of kits a week. So by the time we were done with the majority of the vehicles it would be 6 months to a year. And then you would still have one every now and then for years after that. In this case I think it will take longer. Since toyota doesn't even have a part produced yet and you are talking about over 2 million vehicles. The techs are going to get real good at replaceing gas pedals.

With most recalls when you see the labor time they alow at 1st you say to yourself, "no stinkin way can I do it in .3" But after a couple of dozen you are usally beating time by a far amount. The techs will like this recall they will make money, since they will be doing dozens of recalls daily.

[Mitchell Andrus]

The techs are going to get real good at replaceing gas pedals.

.

They'll be replacing them in the parking lot while you wait. Running them into a bay will take way too long. 5 mins, tops.
.

[Matt Meiser]

Another genius PR move.

"The Associated Press has learned that Toyota is sending new gas pedal systems to car factories rather than dealerships who want the parts to take care of millions of customers whose pedals may stick."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/.../toyota_recall

Now, I'm wouldn't be surprised if the reason they are doing this is that they are cranking out new parts that haven't been fully tested (according to an article I read quoting someone from CTS yesterday) so they are going to put them into cars that won't hit lots for weeks so that they can replace them again if need be. Still, the implication won't sit well...

[Dave Johnson29]

Sorry, I wasn't clear, I mean that putting it into park instead of neutral wouldn't hurt the car for just that reason.

Why wouldn't one just turn the ignition to off?

[Dave Ogren]

I didn't see a post about the gas petal suplier.
I hope that I didn't miss it. If I did I apologize.
All of those parts were make by CTS of Elkhart, Indiana.
They are a multi-national corporation mostly known for poluting it's older plants in North America with volitile organic compounds.
I believe that I read 10 Million cars to be recalled.
If they can replace this gas petal for $10.00 each that total will get to a hundred million dollars.
Their market cap.( value of the company) today is $258 million. Might break this company.
I have no finantial interest in this company.
Good Luck,

Dave

[Matt Meiser]

Its the same situation as Ford's ignition switch issue a few years back. Hand over too much control of design, manufacturing, and quality control of a part to a supplier and then squeeze them for every last 1/2 cent on price and guess what's going to happen?

[Mitchell Andrus]

I didn't see a post about the gas petal suplier.
I hope that I didn't miss it. If I did I apologize.
All of those parts were make by CTS of Elkhart, Indiana.
They are a multi-national corporation mostly known for poluting it's older plants in North America with volitile organic compounds.
I believe that I read 10 Million cars to be recalled.
If they can replace this gas petal for $10.00 each that total will get to a hundred million dollars.
Their market cap.( value of the company) today is $258 million. Might break this company.
I have no finantial interest in this company.
Good Luck,

Dave

$10.00 each sounds like about 20% of real costs. The lawsuit will stall this for 5 years. And, if the design is flawed it might be Toyota's problem, not the supplier's. I'm thinking that some of the pedal assembly's parts are supplied by yet another supplier. (the return spring for example is almost certainly not made in-house) Also, insurance may kick in at some point.

From CTS's website dated 1/29/10:

CTS Comments on Accelerator Pedals

Elkhart, IN…CTS Corporation (NYSE: CTS) today expressed its “deep concern that there is widespread confusion and incorrect information” about the role of CTS-manufactured gas pedals in the media coverage of the recent Toyota recall.
CTS stated that since the problem of sudden unintended acceleration has been reported to have existed in some Lexus vehicles and Toyota vehicles going back to 1999 when CTS did not even make this product for any customer, CTS believes that the rare slow return pedal phenomenon, which may occur in extreme environmental conditions, should absolutely not be linked with any sudden unintended acceleration incidents. CTS is also not aware of any accidents and injuries caused by the rare slow return pedal condition, to the best of its knowledge. CTS wishes to clarify that it does not, and has never made, any accelerator pedals for Lexus vehicles and that CTS also has no accelerator pedals in Toyota vehicles prior to model year 2005.
“We are disappointed that, despite these facts, CTS accelerator pedals have been frequently associated with the sudden unintended acceleration problems and incidents in various media reports,” said Dennis Thornton, CTS Vice President and General Manager of Automotive Products Group. Toyota itself has also publically stated that this recall is separate from the earlier recalls which were done to remedy sudden acceleration in vehicles.
CTS and Toyota continue to work closely in our partnership to resolve the slow return phenomenon.

.

[Walt Nicholson]

If you read my earlier post it explains that this vehicle does not use a conventional key/lock system. The vehicle's computer "reads" the chip in the key in your pocket and enables the push button on the dash so when you hit "start" the vehicle runs. You have to hold that button in for a full 3 seconds (assuming the salesperson told you this or you read the manual) in order to kill the engine. That is very hard to do at 100+ mph and drive with one hand while swerving through 50-60 mph traffic in front of you while pressing the brakes with all your might.

[Mike Henderson]

Why wouldn't one just turn the ignition to off?

Many of those cars have the keyless ignition, where you don't have a key, you have a fob that stays in your pocket. There's a button on the dash that you push to start the car (you also have to have the fob in your pocket).

However, to turn the engine off, on some cars you have to hold the button in for three seconds. Additionally, if you turn the ignition off, you lose your power steering and power brakes. While you can steer the car without power steering, it takes a lot more force. Some people may not be able to steer, and others may be surprised by the force required and think the steering is locked.

Safer to just put the car in neutral, brake and steer to the side of the road.

Mike