Lye on Cherry?

[John Miliunas]

A number of days ago, I inquired about "aging" Cherry and it appears that the best and fastest way of doing this is to apply a solution of diluted lye. As it happens, I have Jeff Jewitt's book on finishing and, although it's mentioned, the actual technique is not. So, for those "in the know", any idea as to the actual process? I know you apply it pretty sparingly, as it works quickly. But, what I don't know is: Do you need to somehow neutralize it? How long does one let it dry? And finally, does it matter if it's a water or oil based finish you put on it? HELP!!! I'm going to pick some lye up today and would like to try experimenting with it before going on to the finished product(s) and would really prefer to get as close to the truth as possible, without having to waste a lot of expensive wood! Any tips, hints, suggestions and experience is greatly appreciated!

[Chris Padilla]

John,

I think you could post the same questions on Jeff's site, too. Or, just let it age naturally!!!!

[Tom LaRussa]

A number of days ago, I inquired about "aging" Cherry and it appears that the best and fastest way of doing this is to apply a solution of diluted lye. As it happens, I have Jeff Jewitt's book on finishing and, although it's mentioned, the actual technique is not. So, for those "in the know", any idea as to the actual process?

Hi John,

Maybe you've got the wrong Jewitt book?

He gives the basics in Hand Applied Finishes.

• He uses "Red Devil" household lye;
• 1 or more teaspoons to a quart of hot water;
• dilute to achieve effect you want;
• when wood is dry, neutralize with a wash of 1 part white vinegar to 2 parts water;
• when dry again, sand and apply finish.

HTH,

Tom

[John Miliunas]

Hi John,

Maybe you've got the wrong Jewitt book?

He gives the basics in Hand Applied Finishes.

• He uses "Red Devil" household lye;
• 1 or more teaspoons to a quart of hot water;
• dilute to achieve effect you want;
• when wood is dry, neutralize with a wash of 1 part white vinegar to 2 parts water;
• when dry again, sand and apply finish.

HTH,

Tom

Tom, DING, DING, DING!!!! You DA MAN! Thanks so very much for the info and yes, you're right: I do have the *wrong* book by Jeff. The one I have has a more general overview of many methods, including spraying dyes and finishes, as well as pore filling, pickled finishes, etc. Loads of great info, but not what you just provided! Yep, this helps greatly! I hope I can achieve the same results with *Draino*, as my local hardware store and WallyWorld don't carry the Red Devil lye. I will report back on how this works out for me and, thanks again!

[Bob Smalser]

Whoa, now, John.

If you're gonna use Red Devil lye, then make double durn sure you wear chemical gloves and eye protection. I'm sure that's part of the recipe somewhere.

Lye should be added to cold, not hot water and the lye poured in the water, not the water poured into the lye. I'm guessing Hewitt's recipe is dilute enuf that hot water doesn't matter, but I wouldn't have written it that way simply because there's no telling how many folks will use the "if a little is good - a lot is better" technique and hurt themselves.

You just might try EasyOff Oven Cleaner, first....I've found on a lot of cherry that it works just as well and much, much more safely.

Vinegar rinse afterwards, then sand off the raised grain.

[Jerry Olexa]

John. Flexner also covers it in his book "Understng Wood Finishing"on page 285. He's doesn't reco it and urges caution! He feels difficult to control (effect), needs to be neutralized (50/50 mixture vinegar and water) and later Cherry will continue to darken on its own and you might end up TOO dark. This effect also cannot be corrected w bleach (like Stain) Just some thoughts! Hope it helps. I personally love BLO and Garnet Shellac followed by topcoat of your choice for Cherry (and a little SUN). G Luck!!

[Perry Holbrook]

I have experimented with this a couple of years ago. A few things I discovered:

You have to get the dilution right to suit your taste with one application. Adding a second coat doesn't have much additional effect.

It has a tendency to streak a little if you're not careful.

Each piece of wood reacts differently. If your project has wood from different boards and/or trees, they may turn different colors. (this is also true when ebonizing walnut with vineagar and steel wool)

The final look is not very different from what you can get with Garnet shellac.

One other thing, I don't think Drano is the same as pure lye, although it does have some in it. So the dilution will probably be different than Red Devil.

Perry

[Tom LaRussa]

Tom, DING, DING, DING!!!! You DA MAN! Thanks so very much for the info and yes, you're right: I do have the *wrong* book by Jeff. The one I have has a more general overview of many methods, including spraying dyes and finishes, as well as pore filling, pickled finishes, etc. Loads of great info, but not what you just provided! Yep, this helps greatly! I hope I can achieve the same results with *Draino*, as my local hardware store and WallyWorld don't carry the Red Devil lye. I will report back on how this works out for me and, thanks again!

Glad I could help, John.

Adding to what Bob S posted, Jewitt has a general warning regarding chemical stains. He says to use chemical gloves, an organic-vapor respirator mask rated for the appropriate chemicals, and chemical safety glasses.

He also advises against using drain cleaners because you don't know what effect the other chemicals in them may have.

Regarding exposure to this stuff, an MSDS I found says this:

Exposure Controls/Personal Protection

Airborne Exposure Limits:
- OSHA Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL):
2 mg/m3 Ceiling
- ACGIH Threshold Limit Value (TLV):
2 mg/m3 Ceiling
Ventilation System:
A system of local and/or general exhaust is recommended to keep employee exposures below the Airborne Exposure Limits. Local exhaust ventilation is generally preferred because it can control the emissions of the contaminant at its source, preventing dispersion of it into the general work area. Please refer to the ACGIH document, Industrial Ventilation, A Manual of Recommended Practices, most recent edition, for details.
Personal Respirators (NIOSH Approved):
If the exposure limit is exceeded and engineering controls are not feasible, a half facepiece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N95 or better filters) may be worn for up to ten times the exposure limit or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest.. A full-face piece particulate respirator (NIOSH type N100 filters) may be worn up to 50 times the exposure limit, or the maximum use concentration specified by the appropriate regulatory agency, or respirator supplier, whichever is lowest. If oil particles (e.g. lubricants, cutting fluids, glycerine, etc.) are present, use a NIOSH type R or P filter. For emergencies or instances where the exposure levels are not known, use a full-facepiece positive-pressure, air-supplied respirator. WARNING: Air-purifying respirators do not protect workers in oxygen-deficient atmospheres.
Skin Protection:
Wear impervious protective clothing, including boots, gloves, lab coat, apron or coveralls, as appropriate, to prevent skin contact.
Eye Protection:
Use chemical safety goggles and/or a full face shield where splashing is possible. Maintain eye wash fountain and quick-drench facilities in work area.

In regard to accidental exposure, it says this:

POISON! DANGER! CORROSIVE. MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED. HARMFUL IF INHALED. CAUSES BURNS TO ANY AREA OF CONTACT. REACTS WITH WATER, ACIDS AND OTHER MATERIALS.

SAF-T-DATA<SUP>(tm)</SUP> Ratings (Provided here for your convenience)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Health Rating: 4 - Extreme (Poison)
Flammability Rating: 0 - None
Reactivity Rating: 2 - Moderate
Contact Rating: 4 - Extreme (Corrosive)
Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES
Storage Color Code: White Stripe (Store Separately)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------

Inhalation:
Severe irritant. Effects from inhalation of dust or mist vary from mild irritation to serious damage of the upper respiratory tract, depending on severity of exposure. Symptoms may include sneezing, sore throat or runny nose. Severe pneumonitis may occur.
Ingestion:
Corrosive! Swallowing may cause severe burns of mouth, throat, and stomach. Severe scarring of tissue and death may result. Symptoms may include bleeding, vomiting, diarrhea, fall in blood pressure. Damage may appears days after exposure.
Skin Contact:
Corrosive! Contact with skin can cause irritation or severe burns and scarring with greater exposures.
Eye Contact:
Corrosive! Causes irritation of eyes, and with greater exposures it can cause burns that may result in permanent impairment of vision, even blindness.
Chronic Exposure:
Prolonged contact with dilute solutions or dust has a destructive effect upon tissue.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Persons with pre-existing skin disorders or eye problems or impaired respiratory function may be more susceptible to the effects of the substance.

So, with that said, good luck and DON'T HURT YOURSELF!

Tom

ps This is JMHO, but giving the cherry a good, old-fashioned suntan plus some nice garnet shellac is sounding better and better to me.

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

I have settled on about 2 tbls per pint of water using the Red Devil brand lye. Use caution as advised and neutralize with a vinegar / water rinse after application.

Different strengths yeild widely varying results.

[John Miliunas]

Thanks again for the additional tips and safety warnings! They didn't have any regular lye, so I ended up with crystal Draino. BUT, before I even bought it, the first thing I found was some of those heavier rubber (or whatever composite they are nowadays) gloves! The safety glasses are just an automatic matter of course when I go into the shop and I use those with the side shields. I'll let you know how it all pans out.

Yes, the tanning thing is probably about the best, but we're heavy into the Fall thing now and general sunshine is at a premium anymore. It's usually preceded or followed by mist and/or rain. I'm going to have a LOT of this to do, so trying to gain the semi-final effect before the stuff goes up on the wall is kind of important. I might just go ahead and try to see if I can't locate some plain old lye, though. The thing about "other chemicals", which Tom mentions, causes me a little concern. Enough so that I might try and locate some of the real McCoy! Thanks again, gentlemen! You guys are GREAT!

[Tom LaRussa]

Yes, the tanning thing is probably about the best, but we're heavy into the Fall thing now and general sunshine is at a premium anymore. It's usually preceded or followed by mist and/or rain.

John,

Here's a possibly goofy idea that just popped into my head...

Has anybody ever tried a tanning lamp on cherry?

[Herb Blair]

I've used EASY OFF oven cleaner with good results. Spray on and when the surface is covered, wash of with water. Let dry for a couple of days before doing any other work on it.

[John Miliunas]

John,

Here's a possibly goofy idea that just popped into my head...

Has anybody ever tried a tanning lamp on cherry?

Hey Tom, I don't know how "goofy" that idea is, but I just had this picture of a Cherry board laying on a tanning table with a bottle of Coppertone next to it! Or, or, or....Walking into the health club with a few board feet of Cherry to take to the tanning booth! OK, I'll stop now!

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

I don't know if you have ACE Hardware stores. They carry the red devil lye around here.

[Mark Stutz]

John,
I played with this a few years ago on some cherry boxes. I found lye in the grocery store. At the time, I had read about the technique but didn't have the article. I used the dilute solution, but had forgotten about the neutralizing step. Simply sanded after drying and used a gel varnish. Had no problems. The color will continue to darken however, and will still "suntan".

Mark