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Thread: Technique for bubble free polyurethane on oak

  1. #1

    Technique for bubble free polyurethane on oak

    I have been working on a new fireplace mantel for my living room. The finish needs to be tough, so I chose to use polyurethane. Previous to this, I had used spray-on finishes on my projects, but went with liquid this time around. It took a bit of experimentation before I hit on a technique which works well for applying the finish.

    The wood is red oak. The stain is Minwax, Wood Finish, Early American. The finish is Minwax, Fast Drying Polyurethane, Clear Semi-Gloss.

    My first attempts were to brush on the poly. After reading posts on this board, I tried applying the poly both fast and slow, but no matter how careful I was, I kept getting bubbles in the finish. Then, between coats there was a messy, time consuming brush cleaning stage. I quickly realized that between sanding out bubbles between coats and cleaning brushes, finishing all these parts was going to take forever.

    Note that whenever I open either stain or finish I wear disposable gloves and a respirator. All stain and finish is applied using 3"x3" pieces of fabric cut from an old, soft T-shirt. This is folded into a pad which has the "grain" of the fabric perpendicular to the direction I'm wiping, to prevent streaks. When finished, the pad is unfolded and hung on the inside of my waste basket to dry before disposal.

    Here is the technique I finally landed on:
    - Using a Bosch ROS, sand with 150 grit, then 300 grit sanding disks.
    - Wipe boards with piece of old T-shirt, slightly moistened, to take off sanding dust.
    - Use a T-shirt pad to quickly apply stain to the wood, then even it out with long, slow, overlapping strokes, with the grain.
    - Let the stain dry for 10-15 minutes, then rub off excess with another clean T-shirt rag. If the wood has worm holes and other irregularities that hold liquid stain, check it and dry wipe it again in another 30 minutes or so. This keeps stain from bleeding out of the holes and making dark blotches around the holes.
    - Let dry overnight.
    - Stir the polyurethane with a stirring stick. Let the stick drip back into the can, and wipe off stick with fresh T-shirt pad.
    - Use the pad to transfer polyurethane onto the surface of the board, using slightly diagonal strokes, until the entire surface is wetted.
    - Use long, quick strokes to even out the poly on the face of the board. Go around the edges to catch any runs.
    - Finish up by making long, slow, light, overlapping strokes. These strokes establish the surface finish and eliminate any bubbles. Check the reflection of the board to be sure there are no bubbles or streaks.
    - Let polyurethane dry for at least 8 hours.
    - Using a 300 grit ROS sanding disk wrapped around a wooden sanding block, very lightly sand the surface of the finish to knock off the little bits of roughness which occur. This roughness will be the worst on the first coat. After the wood is sealed, subsequent coats become progressively smoother.
    - Wipe off sanding dust with a dry T-shirt rag.
    - Repeat poly application and sanding for a total of 3 to 4 coats. Don't sand after the last coat.
    - Finish up with 2 or 3 coats of Johnson's Paste Wax.

    This finishing process is a weekend project in and of itself. I make sure the wood is sanded and wiped down ahead of time. Stain the boards Friday night. The first polyurethane coat goes on Saturday morning, the second after dinner Saturday night. The third and fourth coats go on Sunday morning and evening. The entire process consumes about 1/3 to 1/2 of an old T-shirt. Also, while the finish is drying, keep out of the shop, to avoid raising dust into the air.

    I know this post was a bit wordy, but hopefully it will help some others avoid the frustration I started out with. The key is to keep the polyurethane coats thin and use an applicator which is not inherently "bubbly". I was ready to give up on brushed polyurethane, but using this technique gives fantastic results with a minimum of cleanup time.

    cheers,
    Todd F.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Nothing wrong with your finishing schedule, but since you asked for opinions on improvement .. here goes.

    The curing of poly is an exothermic process .. it gives off heat as it cures. What that does for you .. ESPECIALLY with the fast drying stuff is to create your dreaded bubbles .. then trap then in the finish. The full bodied poly begins to cure after after contact with the air, and it warms slightly. IF there is air trapped deep in those huge oak pores .. it will expand and try to escape, but it only gets part way to the surface, and gets trapped by the skinned over poly. Now, the bubble gets bigger and freezes in position.

    To completely eliminate this occurrence, I thin my first few coats of poly AT LEAST 50% .. this lowers the surface tension, and allows the finish to seep deep into the pores and displace the air bubbles.

    I have shaken & stirred the can with no difference in results. I have used spray, brush, foam brush, micro fiber pads, & old tee shirts to apple .. all with about equal results. I firmly believe the "stir - don't shake" concept is a total myth, and results are more dependent on viscosity & materials.

    Think about this one .. varnish is pretty similar to paint, without pigment. You go to the paint store to get a gallon of paint, and the last thing they do is run it through the shaker. Notice .. it's a SHAKER .. NOT A STIRRER !! When you get home and open it up, you don't see bazillions of those dreaded bubbles .. you just pour some out and go to work. If you put it on a smooth plaster wall it should look just great .. if you put it on some raw oak, I guarantee you'll see some bubbles.

    One last thing to watch for .. when you apply varnish to your prepared wood surface .. do you see bubbles right away ?? OR do they show up after you walk away, patting yourself on the back for such an outstanding job. If the bubbles were from the can being shaken, they'd be immediately visible .. after all .. you just transferred them directly from the can to your project. I think you'll find most of your bubbles come after the piece sits for awhile showing that they come from within.

    Try a few approaches on some scraps .. but go through the entire finishing schedule .. you WILL find a compromise that you really like .. then refine it, but stick with what works for YOU.

    Another thought just popped into my head (this is getting scary) .. try this .. SHAKE the heck out of a can of varnsh. Use your BEST natural hair brush and lay a nice, even coat of a piece of raw oak or ash. Use the same material & brush to apply a nice even coat to a painted surface or even to a piece of glass. If you see nothing on the glass, but start seeing bubbles form on the wood, you know it is exactly what I've described to you here.

    Many here will probably disagree with this concept, but not many will try it .. since you asked the question, I assume you WILL be open to at least trying this method.

  3. #3
    Interesting thoughts, Bob.

    Today I was doing touch up on a couple small pieces that had an unfinished side I didn't realize was going to be visible. The garage is colder than it has been, so after the pieces had set for about an hour, I brought them inside and set them in a warmer location. After a few hours more, I checked the parts, and, you guessed it, bubbles. The warmth caused the air in some of the larger pores to expand. Since this was the first coat, I just sanded them smooth and proceeded onwards. The second coat is now dry and looks just great.
    Todd F.

  4. #4
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    Hoadley in his book "Understanding Wood" describes your exact problem Todd. IIRC..he brought wood from a cooler basement into his house...applied finish and later found the bubbles. He blamed the rising temperature of the wood for causing the bubbles.
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  5. #5
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    Those little bubbles drove me to Minwax wipe on poly. Even with that, I lightly hand sand at 400 grit after the 3rd or 4th coat followed by Johnson's paste wax applied with 4-0 steel wool.

  6. #6
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    I was going to suggest the same thing. I've seen the bubbles before when I used the full-strength stuff on oak for flooring thresholds but never with the wipe-on stuff. Takes more coats, but they dry faster and don't get the plastic look everyone complains about with poly, or at least I don't get that look because I don't put enough coats on to do so.


  7. #7
    I learned a lot reading Bob's reply... but one lesson I had learned prior to reading it was to avoid the Minwax fast drying polyurethane as when all things are considered it's hardly what you would call a "fast" finish.

    One thing I have noticed is that this poly responds better to a good quality natural bristle brush.

  8. #8
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    Nothing at all wrong with the Minwax Fast Drying Poly .. .. just thin it about 1 part varnish to 2 parts thinner .. .. I tend to like VM&P Naptha .. .. it dries rather quickly, but the tradeoff is that it yields an excellent finish. I really like that technique using Original Waterlox as the finish. It imparts a really nice, aged slightly amber look without ever giving the "plastic" appearance of typical poly. Another great application technique is the one recommended by Minwax on their ANTIQUE OIL container. Flood the surface .. wait 5 minutes .. wipe off anything that hasn't soaked in. It wastes a good bit of finish, but you will never see a brush stroke or lap mark, and the finish will be like nothing you can accomplish in any other way. I USED to envy the guys with the $75.00 SPECIAL ALIEN-HAIR VARNISH BRUSH .. .. now I just am happy to keep a good supply of old tee-shirt material on hand.

    To each his own .. .. but you do owe it to yourself to at least try some of these techniques and experiment a bit before dismissing them.

  9. #9
    will do based on your suggestions... but like yourself I am fond of the Waterlox line and averse to wasting material with a generous flooding process.

    BTW, I've also used spar varnish reduced by half with turpentine as a wiping finish (with steel wool to create a nice slurry) and achieved really handsome results. I first did this technique with a pair of 8' Andersen oak sliding doors and still admire and touch the finish 10 years later.

  10. #10
    Back when poly was my finish-of-choice (and only choice) I was never happy with the results. Constant bubbles and rough surface. Then I found this forum and learned you could make your own wipe-on poly by mixing it with half mineral spirits. If I ever use poly on anything the hands could touch, I won't brush it, I will use a wipe-on blend.

  11. #11
    just started to reface/redoor my kitchen cabinets.. used sanding sealer for first coat, then used 2 coats of poly--so far only on the pullouts, and not too happy.....brush marks and bubbles. did not cut the poly with thinner.
    so....sounds like i should try to wipe on with t=shirt material, aftering thinning the poly about 1:1 with turpentine or mineral spirits. which is best?
    not sure i get it, but will try on some scrap. 3" x 3" material wads up very, very small. dont understand that notion, but will give it a go.
    any thoughts out there?

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