Recommend me a miter saw! (opinions on Milwaukee 6955-20?)

[Tom Cornish]

OK, so while visiting a Home Depot last night I have possibly found an alternative material for the diffusors. 3/4" MDF. It seems sturdy, straight, with perfect square edges and cheap. If I glue two sheets together I get my 1.5". All I need to do is rip it into 1.5" strips (it comes in 4'x8' sheets). What do you guys think? Any advice, suggestions, tips and insight as always are greatly appreciated.

I've been lurking here for a while but your thread prompted me to jump in.

I'm also a musician and understand the basics of acoustic treatment and diffusion.

While you have gotten a lot of good and very correct info about not using a miter saw to rip (don't forget to thank them all after you finish your project still having all 10 fingers), I don't think anyone has asked why you feel you need more accuracy than a table saw can provide. Can you enlighten us? It seems a little contradictory to build a diffusor out of 2X4s with a 2X4 frame and then worry about fractions of a degree here or there. Are you trying to avoid fastening the pieces and have them all friction fit or something? What is the musical purpose of such precision?

That may help you get the best advice possible once we understand what you are trying to accomplish.

[Valentine Azbelle]

May I suggest you check out this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nzmB...eature=related

May put a different spin on 2D versus 1D.

Yeah, I watched all the RealTraps videos on their website. I'm not questioning Ethan's expertise - I learned a lot from his site and his posts on various forums - but I don't understand what he means by "wasting the acoustic energy by sending it towards the ceiling/floor". Isn't the whole point to scatter the sound energy? Who cares which way it goes?

Ultimately my choice of a skyline type is based on (relative) ease of production, not on its acoustic performance.

[Valentine Azbelle]

I've been lurking here for a while but your thread prompted me to jump in.

I'm also a musician and understand the basics of acoustic treatment and diffusion.

While you have gotten a lot of good and very correct info about not using a miter saw to rip (don't forget to thank them all after you finish your project still having all 10 fingers), I don't think anyone has asked why you feel you need more accuracy than a table saw can provide. Can you enlighten us? It seems a little contradictory to build a diffusor out of 2X4s with a 2X4 frame and then worry about fractions of a degree here or there. Are you trying to avoid fastening the pieces and have them all friction fit or something? What is the musical purpose of such precision?

There is no musical purpose to this. Just ease of putting it all together. With the diffusor I already made I spent over an hour just trying to glue the first row of the matrix and make it all straight! Because some blocks were trapezoid in the cross section, some had concave walls, none were actually 1.5" on all 4 walls, most didn't have corners... it was impossible to make both sides of the row straight. I used two levels and if one side was straight the other looked like fiords in Norway. Took me 8-10 hours to glue everything together. I'd rather spend a couple of hours more cutting and then have it all assembled in 2-3 hours (vs. 8-10).

[Michael Wildt]

Yeah, I watched all the RealTraps videos on their website. I'm not questioning Ethan's expertise - I learned a lot from his site and his posts on various forums - but I don't understand what he means by "wasting the acoustic energy by sending it towards the ceiling/floor". Isn't the whole point to scatter the sound energy? Who cares which way it goes?

Ultimately my choice of a skyline type is based on (relative) ease of production, not on its acoustic performance.

I think he means that the sound pressure will be less when also directed towards ceiling and floor, and the diffusion is not that much more. Now that is a complete other discussion that is probably best having directly with him and not me.

When you glue together the amount of woodblocks you need for this one you can only glue a few at a time unless you make a jig or something to hold them in place. Glue is slippery and you need a bunch of clamps unless you screw each one onto the back piece.

The DP1 model is far easier since you just screw the plates to the spacers potentially no glue at all. Of course one has to make sure you assemble in the correct order in both cases.

[Tom Cornish]

There is no musical purpose to this. Just ease of putting it all together. With the diffusor I already made I spent over an hour just trying to glue the first row of the matrix and make it all straight! Because some blocks were trapezoid in the cross section, some had concave walls, none were actually 1.5" on all 4 walls, most didn't have corners... it was impossible to make both sides of the row straight. I used two levels and if one side was straight the other looked like fiords in Norway. Took me 8-10 hours to glue everything together. I'd rather spend a couple of hours more cutting and then have it all assembled in 2-3 hours (vs. 8-10).

If that's the issue, something manufactured like MDF will work a lot better than cheap unpredictable dimensional lumber. Since it seems you are most concerned with the squareness of the long edges rather then the ends of the pieces, a table saw is still definitely the right tool.

The other benefit of MDF is that someone else already made the top and bottom a uniform thickness - if you stack your pieces horizontally, everything will stack nicely and there will be no gaps in the vertical direction, and any table saw errors will only be in one direction - horizontally. This will substantially reduce setup time and should produce a workable result without having to be unreasonably exacting with your table saw technique.

[Valentine Azbelle]

If that's the issue, something manufactured like MDF will work a lot better than cheap unpredictable dimensional lumber. Since it seems you are most concerned with the squareness of the long edges rather then the ends of the pieces, a table saw is still definitely the right tool.

The other benefit of MDF is that someone else already made the top and bottom a uniform thickness - if you stack your pieces horizontally, everything will stack nicely and there will be no gaps in the vertical direction, and any table saw errors will only be in one direction - horizontally. This will substantially reduce setup time and should produce a workable result without having to be unreasonably exacting with your table saw technique.

Well, the idea is not to make any table saw errors. And if the errors are made that piece is discarded. I wonder if a lumber yard would rip MDF for me into 1.5" strips.

[Valentine Azbelle]

When you glue together the amount of woodblocks you need for this one you can only glue a few at a time unless you make a jig or something to hold them in place. Glue is slippery and you need a bunch of clamps unless you screw each one onto the back piece.

I do it row by row. Once I made one row and it solidified I can use it as a guide for the rest... as long as the blocks are straight.

The DP1 model is far easier since you just screw the plates to the spacers potentially no glue at all. Of course one has to make sure you assemble in the correct order in both cases.

I haven't seen much info on DIY DP1 (wasn't really looking for it I guess). Is there a layout that can be calculated for different frequencies/coverage? I might look into making one although like I said, making the partitions are a real pain for me.

[Valentine Azbelle]

Speaking of table saws... I am looking at DeWalt DW745. Any good? Any other recommendations?

[Tom Cornish]

Speaking of table saws... I am looking at DeWalt DW745. Any good? Any other recommendations?

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/T...px?pid=4100-09

I have the Bosch 4000 - older version of this one. The table and fence are better than most of the other contractor's saws. If you are going to do any woodworking after you finish this project, it's worth the money to get a good tool.

[Valentine Azbelle]

http://www.boschtools.com/Products/T...px?pid=4100-09

I have the Bosch 4000 - older version of this one. The table and fence are better than most of the other contractor's saws. If you are going to do any woodworking after you finish this project, it's worth the money to get a good tool.

I don't know much about table saws (yet). Can you tell me what's the thickest 4100 can cut? Also these portable saws look kinda small. How big of a sheet you can cut on it realistically?

[Steve Bishop]

I like your idea about MDF, its a very stable material. I would have the BORG cut each piece in half, two 4X4 pieces will be much easier to handle. A 4X8 sheet of 3/4 MDF weighs 75-90 pounds. Much to awkward and heavy to handle by yourself on a table saw.

How about using a circular saw and a cutting guide to make your 1.5" wide cuts? Do a search on Google for "Circular Saw Cutting Guide Plan", for details on making one.

I break down sheet goods this way by placing some 2X4 on the garage floor then the MDF and clamp the cutting guide on it. The cutting guide allows the circular saw to cut a straight line, you'll just have to clamp it in the right spot to get your 1.5" cut.

Since your in Buffalo Grove, head over to the Woodcraft store on Dundee Rd just west of 53. Its a real woodworking store, much more specialized then the BORG.

Hope this helps.
Steve

[Tom Cornish]

I don't know much about table saws (yet). Can you tell me what's the thickest 4100 can cut? Also these portable saws look kinda small. How big of a sheet you can cut on it realistically?

The fence on the Bosch saw will go to 24" so you can rip a 4X8 sheet anywhere the long way. Ripping sheet goods on any portable table saw requires 2 people to do safely and accurately, but can be done on the Bosch.

I just upgraded to a SawStop cabinet saw with a much larger table and a 52" fence. It's MUCH easier to cut sheet goods on the new saw than the old one, but still requires 2 people. Cabinet saws are a large upgrade over the portable guys, but now you're talking a minimum of $1000 for a new one, and they easily run into the several thousands for top quality saws.

Again, the question you need to answer is are you buying a tool just for your diffuser project, or are you intending to do more woodworking in the future? Every tool I've ever bought has paid for itself several times over because I'm a home improvement addict and they get constant use. Because of this I can justify some nice tools, because over a number of projects the tools will pay for themselves. If I only did occasional projects, it would be harder to justify spending $$$$.

[Tom Cornish]

I don't know much about table saws (yet). Can you tell me what's the thickest 4100 can cut? Also these portable saws look kinda small. How big of a sheet you can cut on it realistically?

Forgot to answer your question - most 10" saws can cut approximately 2 3/4" to 3" thick.

[Michael Wildt]

I do it row by row. Once I made one row and it solidified I can use it as a guide for the rest... as long as the blocks are straight.



I haven't seen much info on DIY DP1 (wasn't really looking for it I guess). Is there a layout that can be calculated for different frequencies/coverage? I might look into making one although like I said, making the partitions are a real pain for me.

This might work for you:

http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/qrdude.htm

[Valentine Azbelle]

I like your idea about MDF, its a very stable material. I would have the BORG cut each piece in half, two 4X4 pieces will be much easier to handle. A 4X8 sheet of 3/4 MDF weighs 75-90 pounds. Much to awkward and heavy to handle by yourself on a table saw.

How about using a circular saw and a cutting guide to make your 1.5" wide cuts? Do a search on Google for "Circular Saw Cutting Guide Plan", for details on making one.

I break down sheet goods this way by placing some 2X4 on the garage floor then the MDF and clamp the cutting guide on it. The cutting guide allows the circular saw to cut a straight line, you'll just have to clamp it in the right spot to get your 1.5" cut.

Since your in Buffalo Grove, head over to the Woodcraft store on Dundee Rd just west of 53. Its a real woodworking store, much more specialized then the BORG.

Hope this helps.
Steve

I thought if I get a table saw I won't need the circular saw. Is that not the case? Is there something I can do with a circular saw that I can't do with the table saw?

I will check out the guide info. Sounds like the thing to do.

I've been planning on going to the Berland's and the Woodcraft for three days now - always something gets in the way. Maybe today is the day.