Alternatives to Tapcons?

[Phil Thien]

I'm installing some shelving on my concrete block basement walls.

I'm using the "hanger" (included a pic) so they "hook" on the top of the block wall. That will carry the weight of the shelves.

But I still need a couple of screws through the standards, into the block wall, to keep the standards from moving from side to side.

I was going to use Tapcons. But I've read a # of horror stories about them snapping off. Having one or two snap-off while I'm working would be a problem because I'd have limited potential to move the standards side to side to drill new holes.

Since I don't need a ton of strength, I'm thinking of just using some of those lighter-duty plastic concrete wall anchors you run a screw into.

But I thought I'd ask here first. What kind of anchor would you use? My primary concerns are minimizing risk of problems during installation. But being able to remove them and patch the wall easily if I decide to change my shop down the road would be great, too.

And extra points if your suggestion is something I can source at my local Ace, Menard's, HD, or Lowes.

[David G Baker]

Phil,
I have used the plastic inserts that are designed for concrete and they have worked fine. I like them better than the metal inserts because they don't expand as much and risk the cracking of the block. I use Tapcons as well and have found that the hole you drill for the Tapcon must be deeper than the screw length and the hole must be free of the dust created by the drill. When it becomes difficult to turn the screw it is time to back the screw out of the hole because if you don't it will break in many cases. I also do not use powered tools to tighten the Tapcons, I use hand tools and go slow. Never tried a lubricant on a Tapcon but that may help as well.

[Tom Godley]

That looks like a solid concrete foundation wall -- you could use almost anything.

Tapcons work very well -- but they need to be installed correctly. The concrete must be solid and the hole drilled deep enough and with the the correct Tapcon bit. I can not remember snapping one? I have had them pull out if the concrete has a void!

Small Tapcons are a bit overkill for the job but I have the long ones in the shop so that is what I would use. Otherwise a simple plastic anchor would work - just make sure that it is heavy enough or it may wiggle with the long screw that will be required for that hanger.

[Phil Thien]

That looks like a solid concrete foundation wall -- you could use almost anything.

That is a manufacturer's picture. I'm going into concrete block. Just thought I'd mention that in case someone else thinks the same thing.

[Michael Wetzel]

Do not use the smallest diameter tapcons. They are an accident waiting to happen.

I would use plastic anchors and zinc coated screws as an alternative.

[Roger Frazee]

Not all concrete block is created equal. You will find that some block is so porous that a threaded fastner will just strip out the threads made by the fastner. Then there is hollow block and solid block. so you will just have to see what you have. Tapcons are real good if the block isn't porous and the hole is deep enough and clean of dust. Do not over tighten the screw. Hollow block is good if you can use a toggle bolt and adhesive acrylic conrete eposy filler for the bolt hole when your able to drill through to the void of the block. Insert the toggle fill the hole around the toggle then tighten and let set. Anyway if your going to drill block you need to be ready for options

One other option is to use a backer board and fasten it to the block then attach the standards to the backer. This what we do to mount electrical panels to block walls. In some cases we have covered the wall with 4x8 material which gives lots of options for goofs. I have even seen construction adhesive used to mount the backer to dry walls. Then a few tapcons to hold in place.

[Phil Thien]

Thanks for all the input!

Okay, next question...

Due to the shape ("U") of the standard, there is about 1" of clearance between the back of the standard and the wall. So I'm a little concerned about pulling the anchors out as I tighten the screws.

I could put some kind of spacer between the shelf standard and the wall.

Or I could put a little epoxy in the hole before I pound the anchor in.

Or I could do both.

The epoxy appeals to me because I don't think there is any downside. If I want the anchor out of the wall, I can just drill it out, the epoxy won't stop a drill bit. But I think it may hold onto the anchor nicely.

Anyone ever epoxy an anchor into a wall?

[Rick Moyer]

If you are using the plastic anchors, then a spacer won't help if you use the screws that go with the anchor, They will be too short. Can you get 1" longer screws of the same size? They should then work.

[Roger Frazee]

Thanks for all the input!

Okay, next question...

Due to the shape ("U") of the standard, there is about 1" of clearance between the back of the standard and the wall. So I'm a little concerned about pulling the anchors out as I tighten the screws.

I could put some kind of spacer between the shelf standard and the wall.

Or I could put a little epoxy in the hole before I pound the anchor in.

Or I could do both.

The epoxy appeals to me because I don't think there is any downside. If I want the anchor out of the wall, I can just drill it out, the epoxy won't stop a drill bit. But I think it may hold onto the anchor nicely.

Anyone ever epoxy an anchor into a wall?

There are many industrial options for epoxys for anchors and fasteners. At the hardwares and borgs you will look for anchoring cements and concrete epoxy. Hard to say where the will have it located....

Some examples but I can't attest to these brands. I've always used the epoxys manufactured by smith technologies.

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarest...ve-642396.aspx

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarest...g-cements.aspx

[Chuck Werts]

I would put a 1/4 by 1 1/4 fender washer or whatever size hits the lip of the satndard between the standard and the wall and use some longer screws. It seems likee t would be hard to make a spacer that would fit in a u shaped channel.

[Kent A Bathurst]

The only times I've had problems with the Tapcons was cause by the hole diameter. The bit size they want you to use - - - for some reason, it seems to be a bit (no pun intended) too tight. I drill the hole, then wobble the drill +bit a little to open the hole just slightly.

If you are talking about vertical shear after installed - Nope. Never. Not one. And I have use a similar lumber storage system with prolly 2,000 lb of wood on it. 14' lumber, 12" rack arms, verticals 18" OC and 48" tall, 3 - 4 tapcons per vertical. Not ever a problem. De-installed after 5 years, moved the sytem, reinstalled. Concrete blocks both times. I have no relation to Tapcon other than bought and used a lot of them over the years for every imagineable application (including french cleats into poured concrete). I'm a fan.

[Phil Thien]

I would put a 1/4 by 1 1/4 fender washer or whatever size hits the lip of the satndard between the standard and the wall and use some longer screws. It seems likee t would be hard to make a spacer that would fit in a u shaped channel.

That just might work better than a spacer anyhow...

When I hold the uprights to the wall, there are some gaps here and there (the blocks aren't perfectly even). The gaps are just about the right size for a fender washer shim.

So once I have the uprights placed where I want them, I'll look for screw holes that correspond to gaps behind the uprights. I'm only going to use a couple of holes for each upright, as most of the weight is carried by the top bracket anyhow.

Thanks!

[jerry nazard]

Phil,

A big +1 on Chuck's recommendation.

-Jerry

[Mark Bolton]

We have run thousands of tapcons (construction) and personally never had one snap on installation. More often we have them spin out. Most of the time when they snap its wrong hole, dirty hole, or too shallow as already mentioned.

It sounds like you have already opted for plastic anchors, but as the other post mentioned, a clean hole, good depth (all the way through the web in block is fine), and run them with your hammer on or better yet an impact driver.

If one spins out (strips), just take a 2" piece of 12ga copper ground wire, bend a 1/2" leg on it, slide the long leg in the hole (short leg holds it from falling through) and re-run your tapcon. It will be dead tight and likely never come out.

Another option for you is to can the plastic anchor and screw. Just drill a hole the same diameter as any size common nail you wish to use, insert the same piece of copper wire, and drive the nail in. You will never get the nail out.

Mark

[Jason Roehl]

I would put a 1/4 by 1 1/4 fender washer or whatever size hits the lip of the satndard between the standard and the wall and use some longer screws. It seems likee t would be hard to make a spacer that would fit in a u shaped channel.

I wouldn't. Having the edges of the standard against the block helps distribute the load and adds friction in the shear plane, keeping some of the shear force off the fastener. Adding that washer as a spacer will only serve to give the shelf load more leverage against the fasteners and their grip in the block.