O1 or A2 on Med. Shoulder?

[Maurice Ungaro]

I'm looking to purchase a LV Med. Shoulder Plane, and have never owned an A2 blade. Given the fact that this plane usually is sharpened with a 25 degree bevel, what would you all suggest?

[Brian Kent]

Maurice,

I have never heard a complaint about either.

I do not own this plane, but there is one plane that I will someday get the A2 blade for. That is my Lee Valley Low Angle Jack plane, which I first bought for squaring end-grain on a shooting board. The end grain of hard woods took a toll on it. Lee Valley asked me to send it back so they could test it and learn, and sent me another blade. I was done with that project, put a slightly steeper bevel on it, and it has never caused a problem.

Still, if I was doing all that end grain shooting again, I would try the harder steel - A2 - at the original low angle.

I am writing about this experience simply because a shoulder plane also can be used on end grain, though not nearly with as much stress as my end-grain shooting put on my blade.

I have never heard of anyone dissatisfied with either blade on the LV Medium Shoulder plane and it is recommended more often than any other shoulder plane.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Brian

[David Keller NC]

I'm looking to purchase a LV Med. Shoulder Plane, and have never owned an A2 blade. Given the fact that this plane usually is sharpened with a 25 degree bevel, what would you all suggest?

Depends. LN and LV developed O-1 blades for some of their planes for two reasons - one is that many folks feel that they can get an O-1 blade sharper than an A-2. And because A-2 is somewhat more brittle than O-1 of an equivalent hardness, O-1 will theoretically hold an edge a bit better at lower bevel angles. Since you noted a sharpening angle, I'm presuming you've read the info on Lie-Nielsen's site speculating that an O-1 blade will hold up a bit better at something less than 30 degrees.

If one accepts the logic of an O-1 steel holding up better at very acute sharpening angles, then my guess would be that you want to make your decision based on what you'll use the tool most for, and what woods you're working. If it's going to be 95% used for what it was designed for (a shoulder plane), and you work relatively hard woods like maple, walnut and cherry, I'd be swayed towards getting an O-1 blade. If you intend to use the plane for a substantial amount of rabbeting work (face or edge grain) and you most often work softer woods like mahogany, cedar, poplar and pine, then I'd suggest the A-2.

[Dan O'Sullivan]

David you make a good point no debate here but... it seems like either blade would work VERY well in a shoulder plane. When is the last time you saw a man planing heavily for a long span with a shoulder plane? My old shoulder plane with an early generation blade(inferior in hardness to the A2 or O1) holds up very well and its easy to touch up, retune and back to work.
The LV plane is a nice tool and I would bet that either blade would be great. Truthfully, I have a couple of bench planes with A2 blades and high carbon blades for the same planes from Ron Hock. I have worked both sets of blades heavily and I am happy to report: they are both great and I am pleased with the results. I might add it takes me half the time to get the HC touched up, back in the slot and making money.
I would welcome the challenge to compare the 2 blades and fool around for fun... only if the other guy buys the beer. If Maurice is getting the plane to get the job done and have a tool that works well.. I'd say flip a coin, get a plane and get back to working wood.
later
dan

dan

[John Schreiber]

You won't go wrong either way. It's a trade off between how often you sharpen and how long that sharpening takes.The A2 blade will last longer between sharpening, but it will take more work to sharpen when you do. It's probably a wash.

Some people say that with a 20° bevel, they like O1 better. I'd probably go that way.

[David Gendron]

I like O1 better than A2, I find A2 to be more brittle, but I don't know if it's just me. just find O1 nicer to work with!

[Maurice Ungaro]

Thanks for the replies. A fellow Creeker offered me a LV Med. Shoulder at a great price. Comes with the A2.

So, A2 it is!

[Mike Henderson]

Since it's your first A2 blade, please report your satisfaction with it. It'd be interesting to get a "first opinion".

Mike

[David Keller NC]

David you make a good point no debate here but... it seems like either blade would work VERY well in a shoulder plane. When is the last time you saw a man planing heavily for a long span with a shoulder plane?
dan

I suspect you're quite right here - even though I'm a dedicated Neander, the need for a shoulder plane doesn't come up that often, and when it does, it's typically taking off just a few thousandths off of a shoulder on a tenon. For heavier-duty uses like sinking a quirk in a molding or cutting a rabbet for backboards, I use either a wooden rabbet plane or a wooden moving fillister. Mainly, I was just repeating the logic that I've heard Rob Lee and Tom Lie-Nielsen use when explaining the different purposes for the two tool steels.

I'd note that in my hands, the individual blade seems to matter far more than whether it's A2 or O-1. The edge on the Hocks that I have in Stanley user's planes generally last noticeably longer than Lie-Nielsen or Lee Valley blades, regardless of whether they're A-2 or O-1. Ron seems to have figured out some magic that allows him to make a blade both very hard and very tough - perhaps through the pains he takes to keep the crystal size in the steel very small throughout the hardening and tempering process.

[Rob Young]

OK, maybe this isn't terribly helpful to you but I have the LN medium shoulder plane with its A-2 blade. That has been great for me. Its the only A-2 blade I have in anything. Held up nicely through tuning 14 tenons in white oak plus cleaning up 8 raised panels also in white oak.

I've only honed it a couple of times since, never gone back to do a full sharpening and it cuts through everything I've tried like butta. Mostly domestics, cherry, maple, walnut and poplar being the most common.

Given that there is no price difference O-1 vs. A-2 for initial purchase I'd say get the A-2 and see if you like it. If you don't they may negotiate on a trade for an O-1 blade but at worst you order an O-1 blade.

p.s. -
I see the OP got the A-2 blade when he picked up a low-mileage LV. So now, worst thing is just go get the O-1 blade and try it. Then sell the blade you don't like in the classified section.

[Steve Sawyer]

I too have most often heard the trade-off as difficult-to-sharpen, but sharpen-less-often for A2. However using a WorkSharp, I find that the difficult-to-sharpen bizness for A2 is much less of an issue than it is for hand-sharpening.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Should have plane in hand this weekend. I'll let you know my thoughts on it.