Tool invention advice

[Tom Hammond]

I have a couple ideas for creating new tools. Looked high and low for the designs and purposes and am 'fairly' convinced they aren't out there. Have made some detailed drawings, built prototypes that work exactly as I hoped. I know I need to contact a patent attorney, but then even if I do get a patent... then what? How do you get it manufactured? marketed?

Any advice from anyone with experience in this area is greatly appreciated!

[Van Huskey]

I have never done this and I am sure others have better ideas but I will throw these out. Once you have the IP tied up I would shop it around to the medium sized companies that deal in that area for example if it is a router accessory I would try to talk to MLCS, Jessem and Incra et al. Also for most anything woodworking oriented I would try Rockler and Woodcraft as they have a lot of exclusive items that are marketed as a better mousetrap. If it is a standalone I have less of an idea. In any event it might be worth a business trip to IWF since you might be able to get face to face with a lot of the industry and make some contacts. If it is something the home handyman can use you might be able to entice someone in the infomercial field to back you, though it sounds cheesy it did WONDERS for Fein's market penetration with the Multimaster and to a lesser extent the Dualsaw.

[Chris Parks]

Been there, done that, sort of. I invented a totally unique part for race karts. I did the patent through a lawyer but because I did not want to actually have the hassle of production, sales etc I approached a person who had the organisation etc to produce and market it and I would take a payment per unit produced. Bad move, that person took the idea, modified it enough to get around the patent and told me to get lost. Patents in the end are only as deep as your pocket, someone sees your product, produces their own version and you have the choice of fighting it in court or walking away. Unless there are really big money numbers involved most don't get disputed. Big companies also run court cases until the other party are out of money, sad but true. I am sure there have been success stories but mine wasn't.

[NICK BARBOZA]

Tom,

Here is a thought:

http://www.rockler.com/Suggestions.cfm

Rockler seems to do this all the time with their "self-branded" stuff. If you click on the Frequently Asked Questions link on that page, they go into some pretty fair detail. I have not tried this for myself, but thought it would be an interesting process given I had a winning idea.

Good luck,
NWB

[Mark Woodmark]

I feel it would depend on what the item is. Does it require machining? Does it require sheet metal fabrication? Is it a casting? Is welding, assembly, painting or powder coating required. How about plating? If you let one manufacturer do all the subbing for you it will cost more than if you did the subcontracting yourself. Your looking at places like a Machine Shop, a Sheet Metal Fabricator, A Welding Shop, Etc. If you sub the parts out. be sure your detail drawings are clear and accurate with tolerances. this will ensure the parts fit together when they are received from different outsourcers. Two mating parts may come from two different outsourcers, one may be on the high side of the tolerances and the other on the low side of the tolerances and if you didnt figure your tolerances correctly they may not fit together. The tighter the tolerances the more expensive the part will be. If the part is formed sheet metal, talk to the sheet metal fabricator about bend radius so you will get what will work for you. If you have to chose between laser cut sheet metal parts or plasma cut go with laser cut, the quality will be better. I was an Industrial Engineer at my previous job in a manufacturing plant. I delt with fabrication processes, flow maps, part adaptability and interchangability. Prior to that I was a design drafter creating manufacturing detail drawing, 3D drawings, weldment, and assembly drawings. I also programmed the CNC fabrication machines. If you have any other questions, please feel free to PM me

[Roger Bean]

Tom,

My experience supports Chris Parks advice. Inventions, patents, and getting the product into production can be very difficult, time consuming, and expensive. I have known several folks over the years that have nearly bankrupted themselves, convinced that their idea would make them rich. It's seldom true.

Patents are costly to maintain and are worth little unless the owner is willing to defend it. And, that can be a bottomless pit unless you have really deep pockets. Smaller producers may well be unethical, while larger producers are more ethical, but much more clever at avoiding royalty situations altogether.

If you're convinced and committed to your idea, go for it. But have no illusions about how difficult it is to bring an idea into successful commercialization. And protect it for any period of time.

[Nathan Callender]

A huge part of being an entrepreneur is doing the leg work to take a prototype to production in a profitable way, so I would suggest finding a mentor that has taken a product (any product, not just in WW) to market. Look for small business help centers, entrepreneurial mentoring programs, and just network the people you trust (maybe someone at church if you attend) to see if you can find someone that is a fit (ie, interview a few :-) ). You DON'T want a business partner (believe me) you want a mentor that can help you get from prototype to making a profit.

That being said, I would suggest that you look for machine shops to source parts that aren't off the shelf and you can't make efficiently, and then most likely you are going to have to do final assembly, QA, shipping, sales, books, marketing and all the rest yourself. If you are not up for that, the rockler (or any of the reputable shops like that) gig seems like a way to cash in a little without most of the pain.

BTW, I'm of the opinion that it's better to test the waters first before ramping up a huge production line. Fortunately, it's reasonably easy now to get a basic website to sell a product through, and if you have to make the first hundred or so units yourself, then that's what you have to do. Some times the simpler, more direct approach to the market gives you an easy way to figure out if this is what you really want to do.

Good luck - we need more people creating and building stuff!

[Tom Hammond]

Hmmmm.... it sounds like an "us vs. them" scenario. Chris and Roger have me concerned that maybe I should just use my new tool at home and hide it whenever anyone comes over.

I'm pretty convinced that this tool is a winner... there are several tools on the market that perform the required woodworking function, but in a totally different way. These tools cost anywhere from $350-$900 depending on bulk, unique design, repeatability, etc. The item I'm looking to make simplifies the process, uses a significantly simpler design and has numerous possibilities for accessories. Argh... I wish I could say more. I've taken about six months and tried to find possible objections... "what about this... what about that... what if I need to this... what about that application... why wouldn't I just do this or use that tool" kind of thing, and I have found a number of simple solutions, some of which have actually simplified the tool further. I'm convinced I could sell the item for $150 retail (based on my local machinist's estimates for the various engineering) and make money with it, doing everything these more expensive tools do... but based on what I'm hearing here, how would I possibly sell enough units to make it worth it before the knockoffs hit the market?

Does anyone have any experience working with a company like Rockler (referenced by Nick)? I'm wondering if they'd let me talk to other inventors before we strike a deal... or before I even show it to them.

THANKS FOR THE INFO.

[Nathan Callender]

Tom - some people will steal your idea, and I'm sure some people here will see it and build one themselves just because, well, as woodworkers, we build stuff. :-) But, don't let that stop you, and don't be afraid that rockler or MLCS or any of the US based companies are going to usurp your idea over night. You'll get your chance to bring it to market and establish a customer base that will let you compete.

I'm of the opinion that in niche markets that are free (and ww is definitely one of them), it is much harder for larger companies to steal patented ideas and run with them. Here's why:

1. The inventor and small companies are much more nimble - a large company has to get the design department to create the design, then it goes to marketing, then to sales, then to legal, and on and on - Unless they can make a huge killing on it, it's not going to be appetizing, and it will cost them much more than it will cost you. The bigger threat here is another small outfit cranking them out.

2. The courts are where big businesses love to muck about, but in niche markets, the end judge is always the market of customers. In WW, we don't like to see nasty stuff going on, and if it were to come to light that a company stole some innovator's idea without compensation, it could be extremely bad for them.

3. The product itself isn't the entire package - it's the service, the marketing, the pitch, the confidence. How is it that a bunch of the same band saws are made in the same factories in China, but companies still compete to sell them? Even if a large company ripped off your product, and wouldn't abide by the cease and desist order from your attorney, there's nothing woodworkers love more than being able to contact the inventor/producer of a product to get info before and after a sale. That's something larger companies simply cannot do.

There's definitely a risk in going into business, but you'll never know what the payoff will be until you try. I definitely urge you to find a mentor you can take to a coffee shop and talk through all of this stuff.

[Dino Makropoulos]

I have a couple ideas for creating new tools. Looked high and low for the designs and purposes and am 'fairly' convinced they aren't out there. Have made some detailed drawings, built prototypes that work exactly as I hoped. I know I need to contact a patent attorney, but then even if I do get a patent... then what? How do you get it manufactured? marketed?

Any advice from anyone with experience in this area is greatly appreciated!

Tom,
Good too see people inventing.
Bad to see people going broke.

Do a simple search on the PTO ( patent and trademark office)
If you don't find what you have, do another search using a search company
just to make sure. $300.00 to $500.00 only.

If you believe in your idea...go all the way.
If you like to do some limited testing before you start ( just to make sure )
We ( the eurekazone company) offer a secure site where you can talk to other inventors and get more advice and real feedback.
By posting your idea in the site, you have the record and date.
Not the track saw forum. That site is public and not secure.

In any case, ( for your protection) be ready to apply for a provisional patent ( good for one year) before one year you showed the idea to anyone.
If you don't apply for a utility patent ( good for 17 years?)
your idea becomes public domain again.

Good luck and if you need more info...
call me anytime.

[David Epperson]

I'd always heard that the first step was to mail a copy of the idea/design to yourself so that the post office was a witness to the date of conception. I thought it strange that no one had mentioned this.

[Mark Maleski]

I'd always heard that the first step was to mail a copy of the idea/design to yourself so that the post office was a witness to the date of conception. I thought it strange that no one had mentioned this.

I've always heard that offers no protection. What's to stop someone from mailing themselves an unsealed, empty envelope and inserting someone else's design after the fact?

[Richard Dragin]

People don't get rich because they had a great idea. You can have a crappy idea but work hard at getting it produced and marketed and become rich maybe, but that takes a lot of work.

A patent search will cost you around $1500 for starters. No guarantee that it won't be copied or that someone else hasn't thought of it already. At some point if you want to sell it you are going to have to show it to someone and take a leap of faith. To be persuasive when you show it you should have some market research and a business plan. The best market research is to produce a few and sell them to prove that they will sell. All this takes time and money and hard work and some brains.

We all have great ideas all the time but yet we aren't all rich. Very few have the determination to see it through.

P.S. Any legal advice you get on a woodworking forum will be worth less than you paid for.

[David Epperson]

I've always heard that offers no protection. What's to stop someone from mailing themselves an unsealed, empty envelope and inserting someone else's design after the fact?

I guess that would depend upon how good their crystal ball was. You have one year from that date to apply for the patent. If you protect your own ideas in this manner, someone trying to claim prior effort, would have to know what that precise date was, and then have one of those empty postmarked envelopes handy that predated it, and then have to chase the patent in less time. I'm thinking it needed to be sent registered mail as well, but I'm not sure on that. At any rate, some indication of the contents - which would remain sealed, and a "Display copy" attached wouldn't hurt. I suppose any effort could be defeated, but no effort at all is the easy way to lose out.

[Eddie Darby]

Patents are only valuable if you have the time and money to defend them in court. Just ask the Wright Brothers.

Then when they expire you have a situation similar to the one Tormek faced with everybody and their Uncle getting into the game.

I have had ideas that have become products, and in the process regretted some aspects of it, since the process can be rough, but in the end I was glad to see that everything worked out, though I find myself hesitant now about doing it again.