Cheap Sharpening?

[Matt Walton]

I am sure the subject of sharpening has been beaten into the ground, and is starting to come out the other side, but here goes anyways:
I am still very new to the hobby, so I still don't have a good way of sharpening yet. My uncle sent me some sharp chisels to practice cutting dovetails, and they have been working great.
But eventually, I will have to sharpen them, so I was wondering what the best (read dirt cheapest, but still works good) method is.
I have been considering water stones, sandpaper slightly glued to plate glass, and soaked wet/dry sandpaper on granite.
Now, I would like to have a super sharpening system, but I know that's not happening any time soon, so here is my uneducated thoughts on each one:
Water stones would be really nice, but as I'm 15, I can barely afford anything, and I think that might still be out of my price range.
I think that sandpaper on glass would also be good, but I just feel like the residue from the spray adhesive would build up and not provide a flat surface anymore, though I'm sure that's totally ridiculous.
The last one I find most fascinating. I saw it in a Rockler/Woodcraft (I can't remember which) catalog, and they said that all you have to do is soak wet/dry sandpaper in water, and it will somehow (due to suction or something I guess) fasten itself to the granite, and stay there so you can do your sharpening.
The last option sounds the cheapest, though I haven't really looked into it that much, as I could just buy a slab of granite, and go to town.
What are everybody's thoughts and suggestions on this? is there a wonderfully cheap and perfect way that I have overlooked?
Thanks.

[Brian Kent]

A polished granite tile from Home Depot - about $5 - or a thick piece of glass.

3M abrasives from Lee Valley or Tools For Working Wood - $8 to $14
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...04&cat=1,43072

or: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...egory_Code=THS
Kit of 2 sheets each of 15, 5, and .3 micron PSA film (6 sheets total) ($13.55) In Stock

A honing guide: $10
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...egory_Code=THG

If that is too much (like it was when I was 15) look for a free polished tile or glass plate, get the $8 abrasives, and read up on making a honing jig or hone freehand.

[Andrew Gibson]

I started woodworking at around your age... 14/15. I have been using the sandpaper method since then, about 10 years I guess now. Go to home depot or Lowes and first look to see if the sell marble for window sills (not sure if they still do) I used to be able to get the off cuts for free. you might try a granite place if there is one close to you.

If they don't have the marble for free, go back to the tile and find a granite 12" x 12" they should have some that are about $2. as long as it is polished you should be good.

I have used the wet sandpaper method and the spray glue method to stick the paper down and I find the glue works better, light spray of 3m #77 wait a few second then stick it to your tile. I also take a water bottle, poke a hole in the lid with a nail and use that to keep my paper wet and free of dibrie. I use a cheep honing guide I got somewhere, and it works fine.

To clean the glue residue off the tile, get some mineral spirits, or paint thinner or whatever and wipe down the tile after you pull up the paper. boom no more glue. make sure to get all the grits and use them or you won't get the best results. It wouldn't hurt to get 2 or 3 tiles so you can work through all the grits without taking the paper off to stick down the next grit.

I still end up getting my Paper at the Auto Parts store But I am sure the stuff at the woodworking shops is better and most likely a better buy for what we use it for... that and you can only get up to 2000 grit at auto zone.

P.S. I would go for the Paper and the honing guide that Brian posted from Tools For Working Wood. I have that guide, and the paper looks like the way to go as well. remember not to stick down the entire sheet , you only need a smallish peace at a time... That way you don't waist parts of the paper.

[Bruce Campbell]

Having two teens your age at home, I totally relate to not being able to afford anything and ran into your same problem (though by luck I had gotten a DMT stone before I married into a family). The cheapest solution I found is the sandpaper method.

I lucked into a cheap substrate by going to ReStore (Habitat for Humanity's retail store for their overstock). I managed to grab a fairly large and thick piece of glass for 3 dollars (it's roughly 12x36x.75). A can of 77 adhesive at or around 6 bucks at the Home Center and Sandpaper from various locations. The sandpaper ends up being your most expensive purchase as you'll need several grits to work your way up the honing mountain with.

Couple tips that seem more expensive at first but will pay off:
A) Find about the house or head to the grocery store and buy a small nylon scrub brush. Use this to periodically brush off the swarf (metal and presumably water/oil lubricant). This extends the life of the sandpaper. Go lightly with this but it does help in my experience.

B) as mentioned, cut your sandpaper squares into strips, you only need a strip as wide as your widest blade. This also helps in that if you don't have a large substrate (say you went to Home Depot and got a polished granite tile as suggested by some, excellent suggestion btw), you can adhere several pieces at once and save yourself some time swapping out grits.

C) Mineral spirits to remove the adhesive (or as suggested lacquer thinner, paint remover, whatever). Though, I've found in a pinch the same suggested brush and some water combined with elbow grease can achieve the same results.

D) See the strips mentioned in B. Don't remove a strip until it's done for. If you swap out constantly and re-apply the adhesive build up you are worried about will occur, but on the back of the paper not the substrate.

Good luck and don't be a stranger on here. The first few projects can be a pain and even the simplest looking project can be frustrating (or at least I'm still frustrated) so don't sweat looking for help here or elsewhere. We've all been (or are) there and you're not the only one trying to do it on the cheap with the frustrations that come with that

[Bruce Campbell]

One other thing I meant to mention. Honing guide. Yes it's an added expense and right now being able to afford anything is a challenge. However, with your chisels already being sharpened and you're being fairly new to this, it can be a great thing to have. Yes you should probably at one time learn how to freehand sharpen (shush all you uber-neanderthals), but a cheap even home made sharpening jig can go a long way towards helping keeping you practicing those dovetails and keeping you from screaming about how your tools are only mangling the wood.

One idea for a cheap honing jig:
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...%20System.html

Also for a wide variety of collected sharpening wisdom look up cian perez on the goog. Also a huge a variety of woodworking knowledge on there. That is, of course, in addition to the vast accumulated storehouse here on The Creek.

[James Scheffler]

I think that sandpaper on glass would also be good, but I just feel like the residue from the spray adhesive would build up and not provide a flat surface anymore, though I'm sure that's totally ridiculous.

I can't add a whole lot to what's been said already. I use wet/dry sandpaper on 3/8" plate glass and it works ok. There will be times when you really want to stick the sandpaper to the glass, so spray adhesive is best. With the higher grits (about 800 on up), just spraying water on the glass is sometimes enough to keep the paper in place.

I've found the best solvent to use is acetone to get the spray adhesive off the glass. It's cheap & has relatively low toxicity (though it is smelly - think nail polish remover). Acetone and a razor blade scraper get the job done in just a few minutes.

Jim

P.S. If you want to do some serious metal removal, it's often hard to find low grits of wet/dry locally. I order 100 and 150 from Klingspor: http://www.woodworkingshop.com/ It's high-quality paper.

[Chris Hudson42]

IMHO, one of the best websites on sharpening is Brent Beach's http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/index.html

He concentrates on plane irons, but the techniques will be applicable to your chisels as well.

Plus everything is inexpensive - the most expensive is the 3M PSA paper mentioned above by Brian Kent @ $13.55. He also shows you how to make your own jigs from hardwood and inexpensive T-nuts and machine screws.

Unlike Beach who uses glass substrates, I use the same black polished 12 x 12 granite tile from HD - about $3.50/ea last week when I picked up a box of 5. Use three, one for each 3M micron grit. Work great.

Good Luck!
Chris

[Matt Walton]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!
My head is spinning a little bit, but here is what I have so far.
I need to get some 3M PSA abrasive film.
I also need to get a honing jig, until I can do it freehand.
I need to get a nice flat piece of granite/marble/glass.
So, I am hearing you talking about "oh, I got it free from the offcuts" but how do you get it? Do you just go into HD or Lowes and ask for their countertop cutoffs?

[Mike Siemsen]

As was stated above get your wet or dry sandpaper from an auto parts store.If you don't need to rework an edge I would go with 600, 1000, 2000. You can use the super 77 though it is over kill and the cheaper stuff next to it on the shelf will work just fine. You can use the paper until there appears to be nothing left, it just gets finer and finer. Wipe the water and swarf (the black stuff) off right away when you are done and the paper will last longer. Laying the glass or tile on a thin rubber mat keeps it from scooting around, I use the thin white foam that is used for packing electronics and such. Get one of the eclipse style honing guides that side clamp onto the chisel or iron and have a small roller on the bottom. They run about $12 to $14, you can also make your own from a block of wood. Harbor Freight has them for $3.99 but you have to pay $6 for shipping.

[Matt Walton]

so what's the difference between the harbor freight guide and this one?

[Jim Koepke]

Wow, thanks for all the responses!
My head is spinning a little bit, but here is what I have so far.
I need to get some 3M PSA abrasive film.
I also need to get a honing jig, until I can do it freehand.
I need to get a nice flat piece of granite/marble/glass.
So, I am hearing you talking about "oh, I got it free from the offcuts" but how do you get it? Do you just go into HD or Lowes and ask for their countertop cutoffs?

Scrounging, or getting things for free could almost be a web site on its own.

Learning the art of conversation and being able to determine if a person is one who wants to squeeze a dollar out of everything or if they are the kind that is happy to let one thing go to make space for another thing without monetary consideration.

My advice on sharpening would be to continue using scary sharp and as you can, save up to buy either an 8000 stone or a combination 4000/8000. Then as time and saving allow, save up for a 1000 or 2000 stone. I find for work below these grits you will either want a grinder or sand paper.

You may be able to earn some money with your sharpening skills or woodworking skills.

I am retired and the only way I was going to be able to spend as much as I wanted to recently was to sell off some of my extra tools and also to buy old tools and fix them up for sale. It took some of my time, but in the end, I was able to acquire some nice additions to my shop. I am now considering doing it all over again to buy a few more tools. It is getting around to yard sale and flea market season the timing is good.

What every you do, learn as you go and enjoy what you are doing,

jim

[James Ogle]

Matt,

For free cutoffs first place to check is the Kitchen Cabinet Desk. Ask them if they have any discontinued samples of granite or quartz countertop. I got some very nice 6x8 inch peices a few years back. I also got two 20x30 inch peices of quartz countertop, sink outcuts, for a sharpenig bench I plan on building soon. Lots of times when they change vendors the old samples just get left in a cabinet. If they don't have any go to the tile section and ask if they have cut any granite tile recently. Offcuts are often left at the wetsaw until someone makes them clean it up.

If both of those are a strikeout try either countertop fabricators or monument makers, gravestones. At either of these places talk to the guys in the shop. Explain what you are looking for and why you want it. They might be willing to part with some very nice materials to further along your skills. Most craftsman are very willing to help out another. I have gotten a lot of stuff for free or very little outlay just by asking. Just remember to return the favor someday.

[Jim Koepke]

so what's the difference between the harbor freight guide and this one?

Not sure of the particular difference if there is one. Harbor Freight is a multi store retailer and searches for the lowest cost sources for huge purchases. They are not concerned as much with quality as they are with price.

At Tools For Working Wood, there is more concern with their single outlet not having to deal with an unsatisfied customer.

There are many types of customer.

There is the kind that will buy something cheap just because it is cheap and may never use it or get one use from it and be happy.

Another is the kind that will buy something cheap and if it is no good they will just think about how cheap it was and go back looking for another "bargain."

There are those who will not buy something just because it is low priced. I have to be able to see that the bargain is not a hole for throwing money away.

Denebe from Lie-Nielsen was showing us the inexpensive sharpening guide they sell that looks similar to the one shown at the link. He said LN is planing on making their own version of this style guide. The one he had needed a few user modifications to work at its full potential.

The blade support needed to be filed a little so it wouldn't crown a thin blade.

Some of the front was also removed to allow for clearance when a blade doesn't project far enough to keep the guide from hitting the stone.

jim

[Michael Faurot]

This is diamond honing block from Harbor Freight is pretty decent and at $15 shouldn't break the bank:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92867

[Zach England]

Also, if using one of the cheap honing guides, it is possible to build a jig to measure the blade protrusion in a way that allows you to repeat the bevel angle. I use the veritas honing guide for this reason, but I imagine with a little fiddling a shop built alternative would work fine.