Gouges

[Michael Faurot]

After making some changes to my cable television subscription, I can now receive Roy Underhill's The Woodwright's Shop, on a regular basis. After watching a dozen or so shows, and learning a variety of new and interesting things, I see I need to get some gouges.

So, I'd like to get a set of new gouges. I'd also like to do this so that I have both incanel and outcanel in the same sizes. Ideally it would be a set that includes both incanel and outcanel, but I wouldn't have a problem buying two sets if one is incanel and the other is outcanel. Any suggestions on a manufacturer and source to purchase?

[Darnell Hagen]

Generally in-cannel gouges are patternmakers tools. They are used to make straight grooves, a job more often given to the router now. Out-cannel gouges are carvers tools. I'm not sure of your intended goal, but you may not need a set of in-cannel.

I can't help with new manufacturers, I prefer vintage Addis.

[Joel Moskowitz]

After making some changes to my cable television subscription, I can now receive Roy Underhill's The Woodwright's Shop, on a regular basis. After watching a dozen or so shows, and learning a variety of new and interesting things, I see I need to get some gouges.

So, I'd like to get a set of new gouges. I'd also like to do this so that I have both incanel and outcanel in the same sizes. Ideally it would be a set that includes both incanel and outcanel, but I wouldn't have a problem buying two sets if one is incanel and the other is outcanel. Any suggestions on a manufacturer and source to purchase?

Ashley Iles and I would guess other carving tool makers will make on special order in-cannel gouges. They will match. What this means is that a No. 8 1/2" outcannel gouge will cut the same arc as an No. 8 1/2 incannel gouge. Not that you take a 2 #8 x 1/2" gouges and one you put the bevel on the outside and the other the inside.

But I would agree with the previous poster. Unless you are doing some specfic work in inlay, instrument making, etc in general in-cannel gouges aren't that useful and you certainly don't need full sets.

joel

[Jim Koepke]

So, I'd like to get a set of new gouges.

You must have just won the Texas Lottery.

No only are there sizes from 1/16 or 1/8 up, but there are about 8 different sweeps. Then you get to the spoon bent or back bent.

If you are using these for cabinet molding then you do want in cannel and out cannel.

If you want them for carving, then you may not want as many of each.

You may also want to post in the carvers forum to find people who know a bit more than us average Neanders. I have a lot of gouges and it is getting to the point I do not always know what is in my "set" when one is found out and about. If the price is good it is bought, because they can usually be resold if need be.

I have a lot of Buck Brothers, Witherby, Stilleto, Butcher, Addis, Henry Taylor, Two Cherries and a few others I can not recall.

jim

[Robert Rozaieski]

I have both a set of out-cannel and a set of in-cannel bench gouges and now that I have them, I wouldn't be without the incannel gouges. You can pare/scribe inside curves so much easier with an incannel gouge vs. cutting with a bowsaw and cleaning up with files & rasps. So much faster and cleaner to use a sharp gouge. I have 4 of each, 1/4", 1/2", 3/4" and 1". I got mine used on ebay shipped from England (quite reasonable actually). But Henry Taylor and Two Cherries still make both in-cannel and out-cannel bench gouges. You can check them out here.

Note, these are not carving gouges, but firmer gouges, for heavier bench work. I have carving gouges too and they are a different animal entirely. Carving gouges are much more delicate. Bench/firmer gouges are heavier.

[Michael Faurot]

But Henry Taylor and Two Cherries still make both in-cannel and out-cannel bench gouges. You can check them out here.

Excellent! That's exactly what I was hoping to find. Now I just need to decide between the Henry Taylor sets and the Two Cherries sets.

Note, these are not carving gouges, but firmer gouges, for heavier bench work. I have carving gouges too and they are a different animal entirely. Carving gouges are much more delicate. Bench/firmer gouges are heavier.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew I didn't want carving gouges, but didn't know the correct adjective to use. From what I saw on the web site these are just what I had in mind.

[Harlan Barnhart]

You can pare/scribe inside curves so much easier with an incannel gouge vs. cutting with a bowsaw and cleaning up with files & rasps. So much faster and cleaner to use a sharp gouge.

Hi Robert,
This sounds interesting but I would like to see it in action before I spring for a set of incannels. I enjoy your podcast very much. (Hint, Hint)

[Steve Hamlin]

While I am not a fan of their handles, I would go with the Two Cherries. The Henry Taylors (at least those I have) are rather soft (can be shaped with a file)

[Robert Rozaieski]

Hi Robert,
This sounds interesting but I would like to see it in action before I spring for a set of incannels. I enjoy your podcast very much. (Hint, Hint)

Harlan,
Check out Episode #16. I used an incannel to make the cove cutout on the aprons of the tea table (the gouge use starts at about 31 minutes if you don't want to watch the entire thing). It was real time, no cut and edit. I think it took 3 or 4 paring cuts with the gouge to make each cove (took about a minute to do because I was talking while doing it), and they required zero filing or sanding to clean up the cuts. The coves were ready for finish straight from the gouge. No way I could have cut those coves with a bow saw and cleaned them up with a file/scraper/sandpaper in less than a minute each, not to mention, the finished surface would not have been as nice.

I used the incannel again in Episode #17 to blend the knee blocks with the back of the knee on the cabriole legs. I did clean this up with a file to refine the shape of the curves, but it was much faster, and cleaner than rasping the whole thing and then moving to the file.

I'm telling you, the old guys knew what they were doing (big surprise). The more I use chisels and gouges alone for this kind of work, the more I like them. In Episode #16 I basically used nothing more than a chisel to make the step in the table's apron after making a couple of relief cuts with a back saw. I'm simply amazed by how much can be done and how quickly, simply by paring with a sharp chisel or gouge.

In talking to Dave Salisbury down at the Hay shop in Williamsburg the last time I was down there, I asked about the gouge marks on a rough shaped cabriole leg they had sitting on the display table. He said they don't use a saw at all to rough out the curves of their cabriole legs, because it's too slow. They simply draw the pattern on and use several incannel gouges to pare down to the pattern line before cleaning up the lines of the leg. I haven't tried this yet, but I can see how it could be faster than sawing.

I don't know a turning bow saw made today that can effeciently handle 12/4 stock. When I make cabriole legs, I only use my bow saw for the tight curves because it's simply too slow to use it to saw out the entire profile like you would do with a bandsaw. I use a straight rip saw for the long gradual curves and then spokeshave, rasp and file to get the leg to the pattern line. I demonstrated this in Episode # 15. But it's still a really long process. As a point of reference, I probably have somewhere around 20 hours in the table I'm making. However, probably half to 3/4 of that time is in the legs. I think I probably averaged around 3 hours to finish each leg (including chopping the mortises and planing the rough stock), and this was in poplar. If I were using 12/4 walnut or cherry, the rip cuts would have taken significatly longer. I think using the gouges could be faster, I just don't own shallow sweep in-cannels at the moment to test this theory. Seems to work for the guys in Williamsburg though.

[george wilson]

A small hatchet was used frequently in roughing out both legs and gunstocks in pre power tool days. Needless to say,you have to have skill! Might be something you'd like to get and practice with.

The old English cabinet maker in his 70's in 1970,who I used to visit in the furniture conservation shop used a plumb hatchet which he was quite pleased with. I also have one just like it.

[Chuck Nickerson]

Dastra still makes in-cannel gouges as well. I haven't tried them, but they're on my list.