To finish or not ...?

[Patrick J McCauley]

I suggest Waterlox. It is a great polymerized oil finish that is easily repairable if required later. I have refinished several antiques and this stuff is the cats meow. It gives you protection and can be easily recoated if required. It also preserves that wonderful smooth-silky feel you get with oil finishes with just a hint of build. (No, I don't work for them)

You can follow that up with a light coating of paste wax for added lustre and protection.

Just my two cents,

Patrick

[greg Forster]

I appreciate all the input and I definitely need to re-name this thread to Which Finish...
I didn't really think about the effects of constant handling on an un-finished piece; so at least that bad idea is out of my head.
However, still undecided on what finish- leaning to a minimum. I think I'll try several samples and go from there.

You know this forum is ... always enlightening, thought provoking and just plain too much fun !

[Prashun Patel]

Ok, since you've decided you want a finish: I vote for a wiping varnish. It builds slowly, is easy to apply and control, isn't too sensitive to dust. It's easy.

[David Keller NC]

I appreciate all the input and I definitely need to re-name this thread to Which Finish...
I didn't really think about the effects of constant handling on an un-finished piece; so at least that bad idea is out of my head.
However, still undecided on what finish- leaning to a minimum. I think I'll try several samples and go from there.

You know this forum is ... always enlightening, thought provoking and just plain too much fun !

You asked what was period-appropriate. There are, of course, very large numbers of these tables out there that have no finish, or a stripped and re-finished surface (often many times over). However - every example I've reviewed in several dozens of museum books were originally painted - usually with a red paint, but occasionally in copper-green. Whether or not you want your table painted is, of course, a personal taste decision.

Regarding shellac - I've used shellac to finish many tables, and it's an excellent table finish with a few exceptions. Keep in mind that these observations are shellac that's been freshly dissolved from flakes - I've had very poor luck with pre-dissolved shellac (like Zinsser seal-coat, for example).

1) Shellac is, despite common wisdom to the contrary, extraordinarily water resistant. I recently did a test for a client that wanted a large cherry kitchen island finished in shellac - I placed a wet glass (filled with water and ice), a puddle of water, and a puddle of acidic soda (moutain dew) on a cherry board with 3 thins coats of shellac on it and left it for 18 hours. After wiping with a paper towel, the place were the liquids were was indistinguishable from the surrounding finish.

2) Shellac will not hold up to strongly alcoholic liquids, but the same test as noted in 1 with beer and wine left no visible marks after 18 hours.

3) Shellac is very susceptible to hot mugs or dishes. Anything approaching the boiling point will partially melt the shellac and leave a ring where the dish was.

4) Shellac is damaged by common cleaning solutions that contain alkaline materials. Examples are 409, Windex, and cleaning ammonia. Shellaced surfaces that have been exposed to these chemicals soften considerably, and are then vulnerable to water marks (I tested this - this effect may be the source of the "water ring" comments on the net forums).

[Don C Peterson]

As to getting dirty, a finish doesn't prevent that, and sometimes just makes it worse as the finish deteriorates. Alan Peters in his book, Cabinet Making: A Professional Approach Says that unfinished is his favorite "finish" for kitchen tables. This approach has been used for decades by his mentors and himself, and for centuries by craftsmen before them... I have comparatively little experience with it, but in a way it makes sense.

As the table gets dirty, you take some hot soapy water and scrub it down. The water will tend to swell up and fill in dents. Scrubbing keeps the dirty nastiness from building up and he says that over a period of decades, a nice patina develops.

[Mark Berenbrok]

I made our kitchen table from heart of pine about 10 years ago and used the 1/3 BLO, 1/3 turpentine, 1/3 varnish formula. Kitchen tables get so much use (abuse) that I wanted something that was easy to repair and looked good. Once a year I'll take it outside and scrub the top with mineral spirits and 0000 steel wool. Two coats of the above mixture and I'm done in the same day. The mixture really sets off the figure and color in heart of pine.

Garrett Hack did an article in FWW about the finish.

[paul cottingham]

Varnish oil is nice, and really non-toxic.

[greg Forster]

I starting to think the solution is to make 2 tables; one with finish and one without. I realize that paint was often a historic finish on many utilitarin(sic?) pieces, but just not crazy about that direction. I looking to get some more info (help?) on the "red finish" that is often noted on antique pieces



I'm sure the "spell-checker" is right here, but I just can't find it

[David Keller NC]

Greg - The reddish stain/paint often cited as the original finish on maple objects of the period was intended to mimic mahogany at a much cheaper price (historic sources note mahogany at about 4 times the price of maple). If you're interested in the historic recipe, one can be found in the book "The Dunlaps and Their Furniture" by Charles S Parsons. It involves logwood chips and "dragon's blood", which is an extract of Dracaena species of plants - I think you can get it from the Olde Mill Cabinet Shop.

A warning - most of the red paints of the period contain cinnabar as the primary pigment. Cinnabar is the common term for mercury sulfide, which is remarkably poisonous.

[Mark Roderick]

I'm not arguing with you, but this just doesn't make sense to me. A finish definitely WILL help keep the table clean because the pores are filled in and you can easily wash off dirt and oils. That's one of the main reasons for using a finish. And of course a good finish is not going to deteriorate quickly.

As for repeatedly wiping a piece of bare wood with hot soapy water over the course of a decade, I just don't think a "patina" is what will develop. Instead, I think you're going to get loose, decaying wood fibers and a surface that is increasingly murky and unattractive.

I didn't finish my workbench and over time it just gets dirty, fine for woodworking but not where I'd seat guests for Thanksgiving dinner. If I rubbed my bench with water I don't think I'd get a nice patina!

[greg Forster]

I'm going with the red stain. What would be a modern recipe for the stain. I'm old enough to remember when Mercury was used in apple orchards- bad stuff.

[Frank Drew]

As to getting dirty, a finish doesn't prevent that, and sometimes just makes it worse as the finish deteriorates. Alan Peters in his book, Cabinet Making: A Professional Approach Says that unfinished is his favorite "finish" for kitchen tables. This approach has been used for decades by his mentors and himself, and for centuries by craftsmen before them... I have comparatively little experience with it, but in a way it makes sense.

As the table gets dirty, you take some hot soapy water and scrub it down. The water will tend to swell up and fill in dents. Scrubbing keeps the dirty nastiness from building up and he says that over a period of decades, a nice patina develops.

Don,

As I remember it, Peters wrote that he finished his kitchen table with a rather laboriously built up linseed oil finish, rubbed in hard with a brick covered with a piece of carpet or something like that. And the wood was nothing special, plain pine (deal) or something similar, I think.

[David Keller NC]

I'm going with the red stain. What would be a modern recipe for the stain. I'm old enough to remember when Mercury was used in apple orchards- bad stuff.

Greg - recall that pine may (probably WILL) blotch badly if it's stained/dyed as raw wood. For this reason, I would suggest the following - wash coat your table with one or two coats of a 1 lb. cut of shellac. Mix the shellac up from flakes, because you want this surface to cure very hard. Allow it to sit for at least 24 hours (preferably 72), then apply one or more coats of a 1-2 lb. cut of shellac appropriately tinted with red Transtint wood dye. The good thing about this procedure is that if you don't like the result, you can easily remove the coating and start again. that won't be easy if you dye the raw wood - lots and lots and lots of sanding.

Whether you wish to over-coat the dyed shellac with more shellac or an alkyd varnish, polyurethane, or laquer or not is your call, but anything will stick to shellac, so this is a versatile undercoat.