Gasoline/Ethanol Question

[Von Bickley]

Are there any major gas companies that do not add ethanol to their gas?

I'm trying to run ethanol free.........

[Anthony Anderson]

Going to be difficult. There is subsidies to the corn growers, and currently the ethanol is being pushed as an alternative, to reduce oil dependence, mostly foreign.

Due to the corn subsidies, the farmers can sell the corn much cheaper than they otherwise could. There is also a also a large tax levied against real can sugar which is mostly imported. As a result we can no longer get real sugar in out pop/soft drinks, and pretty much everything else that used to contain real sugar, now contains high fructose corn syrup. Pop/soft drink, IMO, don't taste as good as they once did.

Good luck finding ethanol free gas. It will not go away, because there is too much influence/money to make sure that it stays. Regarding High Fructose Corn Syrup, I stay away from it, and only buy a product with HFCS when I have to. I try to influence change via my spending habits, when I can.

[Scott T Smith]

It was my understanding that Ethanol was selected as an additive to replace the former MTBE additive, because the latter was carcinogenic and ethanol is not.

This is for geographic locations that require oxygenated fuel.

Avgas does not contain ethanol, but it's a lot more expensive than regular unleaded...

[Matt Meiser]

As a result we can no longer get real sugar in out pop/soft drinks, and pretty much everything else that used to contain real sugar, now contains high fructose corn syrup. Pop/soft drink, IMO, don't taste as good as they once did.

As an aside--Pepsi and Mountain Dew are both available with real sugar around here as Pepsi Flashback or something like that.

[Mike Henderson]

I think ethanol is also used to boost the octane rating of the gasoline (RON=129). But it doesn't contain as much energy by volume as gasoline so your MPG will be lower.

Mike

[Ron Cole]

If I recall, marine fuel does not have ethanol in it, as most boats are still not equipped to handle it. At one point, there were warnings on the (car) gas pumps warning about using it in boats. I don't know how practical it would be to fill your car up at the marina though...

Edit: Did a google search out of curiosity, found this: http://pure-gas.org/

They list stations state by state the have ethanol free gas.

[Pat Germain]

As an aside--Pepsi and Mountain Dew are both available with real sugar around here as Pepsi Flashback or something like that.

I'm pretty sure those are made with beet sugar. But you can buy cane sugar Pepsi and Coke at Mexican markets.

[Joe Pelonio]

If I recall, marine fuel does not have ethanol in it, as most boats are still not equipped to handle it. At one point, there were warnings on the (car) gas pumps warning about using it in boats. I don't know how practical it would be to fill your car up at the marina though...

Edit: Did a google search out of curiosity, found this: http://pure-gas.org/

They list stations state by state the have ethanol free gas.

Confirmed by your list (at least here in WA) the stations are limited to rural areas far from where most gas buying commuters are. The same places that don't have the anti-vapor gas nozzles.

[Jim Mattheiss]

Interesting about the octane rating.

I know that methanol produces less BTU's by volume than gasoline. How can it have a higher octane? I'm assuming octane is a calculation of volatility per unit volume. Given that assumption I don't see how it could raise octane.

So much for the honesty of the Dukes of Hazzard - the boys ran the "General" on Uncle Jesse's best and outran the law.

Cheers

Jim

[Mike Henderson]

Octane is the ability of a fuel to avoid auto ignition under high compression ratios. A high octane fuel allows you to run an engine with a high compression ration without "knock" (pre-ignition) - it says nothing about the energy density of the fuel.

Let's say you had gasoline which had been refined to 110 octane, and an ethanol mix of 110 octane. Both will resist pre-ignition the same, but you'll have to put more ethanol into each charge to get the same power in each stroke.

Mike

[Thomas Hotchkin]

Octane is the ability of a fuel to avoid auto ignition under high compression ratios. A high octane fuel allows you to run an engine with a high compression ration without "knock" (pre-ignition) - it says nothing about the energy density of the fuel.

Let's say you had gasoline which had been refined to 110 octane, and an ethanol mix of 110 octane. Both will resist pre-ignition the same, but you'll have to put more ethanol into each charge to get the same power in each stroke.

Mike

Mike, Well said, Tom

[Ken Garlock]

Greetings to all.

As usual, Mike is right on the money.
A while back, maybe a year, I did some googling about BTU content of regular gasoline as compared to ethanol. What I round was that ethanol contains a little over 60%, yes, sixty percent, of the energy content of regular gasoline.

The troglodytes want less air pollution, so they force a fuel on you that makes you use more fuel thus causing pollution. But wait, it is cleaner pollution, isn't it?

The same trogs want you to operate an electric car, but they will not push for more nuclear power plants to fuel the electrical need. These trogs are the ones and want you and me to cut down our electric usage because they will not do their job. Reducing usage is not the way a free market works. Simply stated, the electric company is the vendor, and the user is the customer. It is up to the vendor to supply the product demanded by the customer, in this case electricity. If they can supply more than is demanded, they have a surplus and can reduce prices.

Foot note, the history books, and their content, your children will use next year are being decided in Austin TX now through May.

[Brian Elfert]

Typically gas stations only sell gas with ethanol added when required by law. Your area probably mandates ethanol blended gasoline.

One gas station near my house sells premium with no ethanol, but it also says for off road use only on the pump. I buy it for my small engines. I doubt the station would really care if I pumped into my car, but it is pretty expensive to use in a car that only needs 87 octane.

[Marty Paulus]

As far as marine fuel not having alcohol in it will vary depending on where you are. You are correct in they are not supposed to have alcohol. That doesn't mean that the fuel is alcohol free. Many marina's will just buy street gas and jack the price to marine prices.

The reason behind marine fuel not having alcohol is two fold. First alcohol attracts water. Alcohol is the primary ingredient in 'dry gas'. The dry gas allows the water to mix with the alcohol and the gas and still burn. Plus it lowers the freezing point of the water to keep your fuel lines from freezing in the winter. However if you marine fuel tanks have alcohol they could attract enough water that the tanks will have more water then the alcohol can mix with and still burn That could mean getting stuck out on the water. Remember if you engine quits in your car you can walk. In the boat it may mean something more dangerous.

Second reason is that many boat manufactures used fibreglas to make their fuel tanks. The resin is impervious to gas but the alcohol will eat right though it over time. When this happens your tanks will develop leaks. With leaking gas and an enclosed environment like a bilge...well you can put two and two together and see the fireworks. As a side bar, diesel fuel does not explode like gas does and is a much safer fuel in boats.

Ok soap box time. Stop reading if you don't want to hear a short rant on fuel prices. Since I am a boater and am forced to buy fuel on the water, it never ceases to amaze me that marine fuel is more expensive then road fuel. They are not supposed to charge the road tax since the boats don't use the roads. However, since 1) boaters are stuck, in most cases, buying fuel on the water and 2) boating season is short lived up here, the fuel stops seem fit to gouge boaters to the tune of $0.50 a gallon premium or more.

[Eddie Watkins]

I found that the north side of OKC has mostly ethanol added gas where the south side has mostly no ethanol gas. I have no idea why. Here we have stickers on the pumps identifying whether the pump has ethanol gas or not. In Missouri and Texas, I can't tell whether the pump has ethanol gas or not. That's the only other states I have been to recently is why I mention them.