Crown Molding Problem.

[Brian J McMillan]

Raking a molding used to be pretty common in the days of ornamental plastering. I have done it but that was years ago . Rather than try to explain the procedure for getting the profiles to work I am posting some scans from my 110 year old copy of Millar's Plastering Plain and Decorative. I hope they help.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm with David, I have never liked the idea of crown on a rake in a room. I have talked every customer that ever wanted it out of doing it. It simply doesn't go. A pediment is entirely different thing.

No offense.

Modern homes have complex ceiling lines. Unless you're going to limit yourself to flat ceilings, you have to deal with crown on a slant. See the pictures for an example of a fairly simple complex ceiling which is pretty common in a modern style home.

If the customer wants crown in a room like this, you have to figure out how to do it. It'd be pretty tough to talk every potential customer out of installing crown in such a room, and you'd be giving up good business if you did talk them out of it.

Mike

[Several people have posted and said they don't think crown looks good in a modern home because of the mix of styles. Personally, I like it in a modern home if it's done tastefully. Crown is just a decoration which I consider to be universal - it can fit into almost any style if done with care and good taste - it doesn't belong only to early American or classical style homes.]

[Doug Carpenter]

I understand that new home have complex ceilings. I ceretainly wouldn't fight a customer to the death over it or anything. In most cases people hire me because the like the work I do and they value my insight. I'm no student of architecture but it just doesn't look right to me.

A home with lot of vaulted ceilings doesn't say "classic" trim to me. The talk of pediments only reinforces my point. There is a big difference between the exterior of roman buildings and the inside of a family room built in the 90's.

To me it's like putting victorian furniture in an atomic ranch. I just think there is something to be said in keeping consistant with the vintage of the home, so to speak.

I realize that there are many homes that are a good mix of styles and one could get away with it. I mean no disrespect.

I'm already there making money there is no need to sell them something they don't need. That being said I have just not run into the customer that absolutely insisted. The day I do will be the day I install crown on a rake.

[Brett Nelson]

I've been thinking about this since this message was posted. Here's my concerns - see the pictures.

The first picture shows a piece of crown molding running upward at an angle. It starts from a piece of horizontal crown, and terminates at another piece of horizontal crown.

Now look at the second picture, which shows the junction of the lower horizontal crown and the upward sloping crown. It's obvious that if the upward sloping crown was continued to the horizontal piece, it would extend below the horizontal piece. The small triangle piece resolves this problem, while maintaining the same spring angle on both pieces.

To match the upward sloping piece to the horizontal piece, it seems that the upward sloping piece would have to be less wide than the horizontal piece, if the same spring angle was used in both pieces.

Now, look at the third picture which shows the junction of the upward sloping piece with the horizontal piece at the top. It's obvious that if the upward piece was continued to the horizontal piece, it would not be wide enough to mate with the horizontal piece, if the same spring angle is used. Again, the triangle piece resolves this conflict.

Sorry for the poor pictures, but I think you can see the crown pieces well enough.

Mike

Yes, the message you posted shows very well the alternative methods demonstrated by Gary Katz, Joe Fusco, and others. You are correct in that the spring angle cannot be maintained without a transition piece. My post was simply pointing out that the transition pieces and corner blocks are alternative methods to the traditional Greek/Roman method. Some call them cheats in the world of architectural design as they are usually utilized when budget restrictions prevent the usage of the traditional method. Again, I'm not here to say which is right or wrong as this is simply a matter of aesthetics, and each person can do it however they like. I just wanted to make sure that the traditional (and still currently preferred) method of doing this is by creating an elongated matching profile for the raking cyma.

I should probably take a moment to explain a little bit further as to why this is still the preferred method when budget allows.

1. The transition piece suggests to the eye that the ceiling runs horizontal before climbing. But the ceiling does not run horizontally at all before climbing, so it draws the viewer's attention to the transition piece because it is telling your brain conflicting information. This is not a good thing in architectural design. Details like this should not stand out as they detract from the whole. Transitions should be flowing and seamless not drawing attention away from the intended embellishment.
2. This is probably the biggest issue with the "alternative" methods. They are very limited in when they can be used. A previous poster already mentioned the door pediment with the raking cyma and split fillet. In this case a corner block or transition piece looks very odd. The door pediment is a historic detail. Proportion and details were well thought out and then used repeatedly. Think of it this way... You build a traditional red brick neo-classical home with white pillars on the front. But instead of using the regular Doric or Tuscan round columns that taper along the upper 2/3 of the shaft, you decide to do them differently. You can't figure out how to make that nice appealing taper, so instead you decrease the diameter abruptly by 1" for every foot in height giving you a sort of stepped cone appearance. Those columns are really gonna look strange on that house.

[Brett Nelson]

A home with lot of vaulted ceilings doesn't say "classic" trim to me. The talk of pediments only reinforces my point. There is a big difference between the exterior of roman buildings and the inside of a family room built in the 90's.

To me it's like putting victorian furniture in an atomic ranch. I just think there is something to be said in keeping consistant with the vintage of the home, so to speak.

But why even build a room if you can't put crown in it. LOL Great points.

[bill mullin]

I understand that new home have complex ceilings. I ceretainly wouldn't fight a customer to the death over it or anything. In most cases people hire me because the like the work I do and they value my insight. I'm no student of architecture but it just doesn't look right to me.

A home with lot of vaulted ceilings doesn't say "classic" trim to me. The talk of pediments only reinforces my point. There is a big difference between the exterior of roman buildings and the inside of a family room built in the 90's.

To me it's like putting victorian furniture in an atomic ranch. I just think there is something to be said in keeping consistant with the vintage of the home, so to speak.

I realize that there are many homes that are a good mix of styles and one could get away with it. I mean no disrespect.

I'm already there making money there is no need to sell them something they don't need. That being said I have just not run into the customer that absolutely insisted. The day I do will be the day I install crown on a rake.

I've had pretty much the same experience as you. Have had very few ask, and talked 'em all out of it. It just don't look right.