Anyone know about the Grizzly Guitar Kits

[John Weber]

Just got an email for this guitar kit from Grizzly. I'm kind of interested, but the web site gives no info (nice Grizz). Anyone have any insight?

http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...emnumber=H6084



Thanks - John

[Tom LaRussa]

I can't find that one in the printed catalog, but there is a generic electric guitar kit, model H3123, which sells for $149.95. The description of that one says:

This electric guitar kit includes all the hardware, pickups and fine chrome plated accessories. Alder body, maple neck and rosewood fingerboard. Makes a fine electric guitar. Assemble, finish and play!

The generic kit is a Fender Strat pattern, instead of the Les Paul look of the kit you referred to. But my guess is that the real difference is that the kit you saw in the email has curly wood rather than plain.

[Roger Kirkpatrick]

Grizzly has a whole catalog for guitar parts and kits. Lots of kits, parts, veneers, etc. I received one last month buy have never purchased anything.
They must have something somewhere on there site to order a catalog.

[John Weber]

Thanks guys, the email special is normally $425 on sale for $225. I have a bit of interest, but wasn't sure on the quality of the kit. I figure if I'm going to spend $200+ and time assemble, built, and finish, I wanted a decent guitar. Still wandering if anyone as built one?

Thanks - John

[markus shaffer]

John,

I was looking at that kit too.. It seems tempting, but I can't imagine the hardware is all that worthwhile.. I do quite a bit of work for a guitar tech guy here and have built a few guitars myself. I can hardly get pickups and hardware for that price and I get the stuff at cost. Certainly not pickups of good quality.

If you have one of those big Guitar Center stores near you, go try playing an American Fender and then a Mexican one. Difference in sound of the pickups is astounding.. That is really telling of the difference in cost. Stuff made in China and Korea is of much lesser quality.. Rumor is quality was why Fender stopped making guitars in Japan. They were made with all the same hardware as the American models, just a few hundred dollars cheaper.. People stopped buying American Made..

I built a thinline Telecaster for the guitarist in my band. Comparing his guitar to my Mexican Fender tele is like night and day. The pickups that I put in his guitar are amazing compared to what are in my Fender.. Perhaps if you play out of a Marshall half stack with the volume at 11 you might not notice the kit guitar is so bad.. But then again, most people I know who play out of that rig can't hear anymore anyway.. If you do get the kit, please let us know how it goes. I am curious as to the quality.

I'll show the page to the guy I do work for.. He might be interested in it for that price. If so, I'll post and let you know how it goes.. Unfortunately, The sale will be over by the time we'd be getting it here..

-Markus

[Keith Christopher]

Well considering the president of grizzly is a luthier I would think he's not putting out cheap kits.

http://www.grizzly.com/index.cfm?&gi...3&site=grizzly


Scroll down to the bottom

[markus shaffer]

Keith,

I would like to think you're correct.. It's just hard for me to imagine that the quality of the parts can be that good given the experience I have with guitars.. But seeing as the original price was $425, perhaps you are right..

I think a good analogy here would be the difference between a Black and Decker palm sander and a Festool sander.. Not to knock B&D, but there is a huge difference in quality. Sure they'll both get the job done, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone here who'd trade a Festool for a Black & Decker.

Same thing with guitar parts.. It's amazing how even the tuning machines can make a difference on how a guitar plays. A good set of Schallers made in Germany versus some cheap Chinese machines that won't hold the strings in tune can make or break an instrument.. But on an electric guitar, pickups are everything.. Okay, maybe not everything.. The difference between a good set of pickups and cheap ones is astounding though.. Maybe not everyone needs a Festool sander nor does everyone need a $2000 + guitar. Plenty of people get by with far less and do amazing things with them (both sanders and guitars)..

For that price, I am still skeptical, but perhaps someone here will buy it and get an amazing deal.. I hope so.. If I played guitar, I might even go for it.. Being a bass player, those extra little strings just confuse me.. I should probably remove a couple strings from my bass, but I think maybe that's for the "off topic" forum..

-Markus

[Scott Banbury]

I've looked at Grizzly's kits too and think the price is too low to accomadate decent electronics.

Consider making your own body and maybe neck and look at components on http://www.stewmac.com/

[Keith Christopher]

Markus,

Yeah I have to agree. I would guess they're good enough for a beginner. Much like your B&D and festool analogy. B&D makes a good starter but once you're skilled you'll grab the green and black or some higher end tool with features an amateur would not need.

Scott,

I would be sure if someone was serious they would put their own electronics in there.


Ok Stewmac is the festool for this and griz is the B&D to be sure.


Keith

[Kevin Murdock]

Keith,

For that price, I am still skeptical, but perhaps someone here will buy it and get an amazing deal.. I hope so.. If I played guitar, I might even go for it.. Being a bass player, those extra little strings just confuse me.. I should probably remove a couple strings from my bass, but I think maybe that's for the "off topic" forum..

-Markus

Hey Markus,

Being that you are wise in the ways of the 4-strings and the quality of some components, what is your opinion on the $299 bass guitar kit that Carvin sells:

http://www.carvin.com/products/part.php?ItemNumber=BK4

The same guitar assembled and finnished sells on their website for $569.

Does it put out decent sound compared to the Mexican Fenders or even the bottom level USA spec ones?

Thanks in advance,
/Kevin

[markus shaffer]

Kevin,

I don't know much about Carvin gear.. Still seems to me a bit cheap for what you're getting.. Consider that a good set of pickups can cost from $130 up, tuning machines are another $50 or so, good strings another $25, bridge another $50... Parts add up quick.. Leaves one to wonder where the cost of making the body and neck fit in. Sure these things are mass produced on CNC machines, but still, there are material and labor costs to consider. My only expreience with Carvin was a Bass amp at a studio that blew up.. It didn't actually blow up, but something inside fried and smoke poured out of it. The owner of the studio was pretty upset since it was a new amp.. He didn't replace it with another Carvin after that.

The only luthier kit I've ever read anything good about is the steel string acoustic that StewMac sells. Otherwise, I think that quality of something has to suffer for such cheap prices.

I'm not sure my way of making instruments is the best way, but I just decided I wanted a new bass and made one. The first one weighs more than I care to admit to, but sounds amazing. The next one I fixed the overall weight problem, but managed to make the body way too light so that the neck dropped to the floor. The one I'm playing now is just right.. A little trial and error but I have made something that works well for me and I am happy that I "made" it rather than it being an assembled kit. The extra money I spent on parts make it much better of an instrument than what the usual run of the mill Fender/Gibson stuff that guitar stores are filled with.. And I can guarantee you'll never see another bass like the one I'm playing.

I would suggest to anyone wanting to make instruments to spend their money on good parts and a few routing templates from StewMac. Buy a paddlehead neck and cut your own headstock. To me, that feels more like an instrument that you "made" rather than some assembled kit. Not to mention, you'll be making something that will be less likely to disappoint you because of cheap parts.

Don't forget also, that even once you make or assemble an instrument, it's going to need to be set up.. I'm not a guitar tech, so beyond tuning and setting my preferred action height, I don't know all that much. Adjusting the truss rod and setting intonation and all that sort of stuff should be done by someone who really knows what they are doing. Otherwise no matter what instrument you have, if the setup is wrong, you're not going to like it. The going rate for a setup here is about $50.

Overall, I think that most people who play guitar or bass seriously would not consider any of these kits to be of good quality. In my opinion, they probably fall in line with what Guitar Center or Sam Ash sells as "beginner" instruments.. While not everyone needs a custom multi-thousand dollar instrument, there is something to be said for just buying quality the first time. Here's a good link about "beginner" guitars.

http://www.edroman.com/rant/beginner.htm

This guy sells some amazing (obscenely expensive) instruments that are perhaps beyond the means or needs of most, but I think he has a point when discussing lesser quality guitars..

-Markus

[Kevin Murdock]

Markus,

Wow, that guy has some strong, negative opinions on 90+% of guitars made.

So what would you recommend for a teenager who wants to "get the funk"? I'm sure Bootsy didn't start with a hand made American $1000+ bass.

/Kevin

[Tyler Howell]

I have to jump on the band wagon with Markus and the B&D/Festool analogy.

If you are just knocking around the house for fun your $300 axe is fine. But performing and travel is hard on an instrument. With other amps and ambient noise, I've seen more than one guitar that would only feedback no mater what you did. If you you can get it tuned, will it stay that way for an entire song.
BUTTTT, Everybody's got to start someplace, so if your in it for the journey and not the destination. I'd say cut your teeth on the Grizz and do your own custom for the next one.

Don't know if I agree with the link guy. What shoots his credibility is he is selling several brands and pushing those.
Shop moderate and plan to upgrade when you have gone as far as you can with that make and modal.

[Tyler Howell]

[QUOTE=markus shaffer]Kevin,




Here's a good link about "beginner" guitars.

http://www.edroman.com/rant/beginner.htm

This guy sells some amazing (obscenely expensive) instruments that are perhaps beyond the means or needs of most, but I think he has a point when discussing lesser quality guitars..

I don't think I like this guy at all. Like WW music is a learned skill. Many types and Many flavors.Sounds like he is pushing what he sells. Yes get them something that they can enjoy but I disagree about Lessons and quality of instrument. Even on these pages creekers have cursed a brand not because it was bad but because they didn't know how to use it.
Many a potential musician has casted aside an instrument because they were frustrated with it.
Like everything else a little guidance is helpful.

[markus shaffer]

Kevin,

I don't agree with everything Mr. Roman rants about on his website. I should have stated that before. He's obviously in the business of selling custom "boutique" guitars which are not for everyone. Thus, perhaps his opinions about the average run of the mill instruments are skewed. I own a Mexican fender Jazz bass that served me quite well for a few years. Got it used for maybe $150 or so with a gig bag. When I first got it, I was practicing in my apartment and never turned the amp up past 2 or 3. What Mr. Roman does state which makes sense to me is that there are millions of instruments that are not really worth much new and therefore have no resale value if your teenager decides that bass is not for him..

I would say you'd be better to buy a used American Fender even if it looks beat because it will retain some value and it will be something that won't need to be replaced soon if the aforementioned teenager decides that music is something he wants to really get into more. I eventually spent more money on my Mexican Fender by replacing the pickups and and electronics with American ones. Made a huge difference in sound quality. It's a nice bass and even though I don't really play it anymore, I can't say that it is a bad instrument to play. The pickups in it even though they are American are nowhere near as good or strong as the Bartolini I've got in the bass I'm playing now. But that's also just a matter of preference. I'm sure you could find plenty of people out there who would say they would prefer Fender's pickups over anyone elses..

Like I said before, if you go with a kit, you'll probably have to spend more money on getting it set up so that it plays right. If you buy a good used instrument from a reputable guitar store (not a big chain store) you're more likely to end up something that will hold it's value, perform better and last longer. If yor teenager is going to be sitting in his room practicing at low volumes, none of this talk of pickups and such will matter though.. At low volume, they all sound pretty similar. Certainly well enough to learn on..




Tyler,

I agree with you. Music is definatly a learned skill for most. We all do have to start somewhere. The quote from Mr. Roman that I think makes the most sense out of all his talk is

"Today almost any brand of guitar is decently made. I recommend trying to stay away from the big corporation brands like Fender, Gibson, Epiphone, etc, etc. I recommend that solely because, I would rather see the smaller companies succeed.* Fender builds a good beginner guitar and so does Peavey. Just don't fall into their trap.

Here's the Trap

Wow!* If this $237.00 guitar is this good, it stands to reason that their $1,650.00 must be way better!

NOT !* In fact the one that costs 6 times as much is usually not that much better at all.

Don't buy into the hype, look for quality and workmanship. Spend time comparing models, don't look at the brand name. Look at the playability. Look at the construction, look at the fit & finish, look at the design improvements. If you use your head and not your emotions, it becomes very simple to choose the right investment grade guitar."

There are plenty or people out there playing Fenders and Gibsons that are absolutely amazing musicians and don't need anything more than what they've got. I don't think that the guitar will make the musician. But if you end up with a poorly constructed instrument, you're less likely to enjoy playing music and in the case we're talking about, teeneger getting his first instrument, more likely to give it up in frustration.

-Markus