Why spend so much on new tools?

[Larry Fox]

For me it is as another poster mentioned, time.

[Ross Canant]

I guess I'm the odd ball. I'll take the old tool almost every time. I prefer the look, the feel, the history of the old tools. I also know that those old tools built all of that beautiful old furniture we all love. It's generally not the tool, it's the hands holding the tool that make the difference.

[Andrew Gibson]

I have to say that this past weekend was the first time I have had the pleasure of getting my hands on the offerings of LV at the local woodworking show and I was very impressed with the quality. To be honest the quality and craftsmanship are better then the old Stanly's I have come across.

My next plane purchase will be a LV BU jack, and then I will be able to have a truely educated opinion.

[Doug Mason]

James Taglienti
"For those of us who aren't as financially endowed as Mr. Keller, who likes to take every opportunity to sound like the Richest Man In The World, these older planes are a good way to get user tools on a budget."

Not sure how you arrived at the above conclusion?

In fact I agree with Mr Keller; the cost of wood for a single project can far exceed the cost of a LN; and if you amortize the cost over, say 5 years, the cost becomes irrelevant; I've invested well over $2K in LN tools and consider it a very good investment. But then I have a cheap Grizzly table saw that I picked up on a dime................

But of course, in the big picture, this is really a pointless argument--we all have different values/incomes/situations......yet it is entertaining to read other peoples opinions. That's why I am here.

[David Gendron]

Here where I live there is nobody working as a carpenter for less than $25/hour. And usualy a 10 hours day, that is $250/day, and if you are self employed, it meens that your tools are a tax writeoff! Of cours if you are a hobbyist, that is totaly different!!

[Rick Markham]

Everybody likes a different flavor of Kool aid . I personally in the future look forward to refurbing some older planes, maybe trying my hand at building a infill one day. Right now, I neither have the time (too many projects at hand) nor a wife and kids to spend my money for me .

I too drank the LN Kool aid recently and love the fact that I get a fine piece of American craftsmanship from a company that treats their customers with respect and cares about their products. For instance I recently ordered a 60 1/2 and a LN dowel plate. They shipped the 60 1/2 and quickly informed me that the dowel plate would be shipped as soon as they had some new ones, they informed me that they were fixing a "quality control issue" which made me happy. I will do business with a company that is quality control minded any day, even for something as simple as a dowel plate. Everyone there has been exceptionally helpful and to me that is very rare.

We all have our tastes and preferences. Appreciation is in the eye of the beholder... Take a Marcou plane ($2000 smoother) the man is a craftsman, and produces an amazing piece of functional art, though it's effectiveness is probably not proportional to it's price tag, I would still love one (fat chance I will ever be able to afford one)

For me the local places that have any antique planes know what they have, and seem to think that even the most beat up Stanley bench plane should be priced for a collector to put on a shelf. One day I will try my hand at refurbing some planes. I don't know enough right now, I am learning how to use my new ones effectively. I totally see the self satisfaction of refurbing a piece of history that several craftsman have made their lively hood using, and making it a workhorse today. It's all how ya wanna look at things

[Don Dorn]

I'm on both sides of this coin. I have (with the help of a knowledeable friend), brought a #5, #6 & #7 to planes that give fantastic results. I'm proud of them beause I know it took the sweat equity and enjoy using them. That said - I sprung for some LNs in the last year. I find myself reaching for the #3 far more than I thought I would, then bought a 4 1/2 and two block planes. If finanical obligations were not met already, I would have never spent that kind of money.

Frankly, even though I don't exactly have buyers remorse, it does give me some pause to think about the money I have in them when it wasn't completely necessary. However, there is no doubt that they work flawlessly and the machining is fantastic. They will be that way as long as I use them and then my wife will eventully sell them for a great deal of what I paid so in reality, I'm renting them for a couple of decades for a very reasonable price.

I have to force myself to be done with planes now - I have what I actually need and anything else is repetative and irresponsible with the money that could be used towards some things my wife would like.

[James Taglienti]

I have a 1912 catalog here that lists the #4 at $2.20 and the 604 at 2.50.

[Alex Silva]

My wife said that when I'll die she ll put my planes up for sale here for 5 to 15$ each.... hehehe .... I never told her how much those new LN planes I'm waiting for cost each... BUT I'm not doing now an Excel spreadheet where the price I paid for each of my 'big' tools will be inscribed.

Cheers,

Alex

[Richard Niemiec]

It struck me also that it depends on what you call 'vintage' planes; I've fettled dozens of planes, and the majority were bought and sat on someone's shelf for most of their life, never really used for serious stock preparation or final smoothing (in the case of a #4 or #4 1/2), and about 1/3 of the time you find a plane that has been heavily used, has most of the iron used up, is pretty beat up, but requires little or no work other than clean up and they work very well.

The clear implication is that in such cases a craftsman did use the tool, fettled and tuned it, and these tools are the real keepers. While there are exceptions to the rule, for example, the T17, 18 and 19s can be fettled to perform just fine, I believe this is why folk tend to prefer T11s and older, as the fella that made a living with them paid attention to them from the get go.

[Richard Magbanua]

I cannot remember the exact words of even who these words are attributed to, so forgive me. But someone said, "What I make is for other people. HOW I make it is for me."

When someone in today's world is making furniture with hand tools it is most likely because of a personal preference whether is is because of nostalgia, a desire to master different and relatively rare skills or to enjoy a more peaceful experience in the workshop. For me, it is probably all of those on different levels. I do very much enjoy looking for old tools and fixing them up. I have many old tools that I use as a result of many hours of wandering in antique shops, not to mention the hours researching how to rehab them and get them working again.

I also enjoy new, high quality tools like those mentioned in this thread. A lot. To get them, I've spent many hours working extra projects or otherwise saving money. As I use these tools, I have absolutely no regrets. Zero, nada. Worth every penny.

Personally, if you really appreciate the time and effort it takes to rehab an old tool and maintain it, you should have an even greater appreciation for the cost of new tools from LN, LV, etc.

Think about it. If you see a hand made, high-quality end-table for sale for, say $300, do you think, "solid price for such craftsmanship. Well-built. Great design and proportion."

Or do you think, "Hmmm, why would anyone pay that much for an end table!?!?".

I know, woodworkers usually prefer the idea of making their own furniture. But the point is, I think many craftspeople have an under appreciation for the value of good work.

[Chuck Saunders]

I have a 1912 catalog here that lists the #4 at $2.20 and the 604 at 2.50.

Get the 604, it is easily worth the extra 30 cents

[David Keller NC]

For those of us who aren't as financially endowed as Mr. Keller, who likes to take every opportunity to sound like the Richest Man In The World, these older planes are a good way to get user tools on a budget. Many of them are good. I don't care how my #5 is milled. It's a hog. I care about the machining on my smaller joinery planes and smoothers. Thats it. As this argument wages on it gets more tiring. There will always be people who think the shiniest and most expensive ones are the best. I had 3 opportunities to buy a vintage Stanley #62 this past weekend, all 3 less than $200. These planes can be found.
If I find an urgent need for a plane and new is cheaper than old, I will buy it. Primarily the only planes that are cheaper new are specialty planes. Vintage planes that are rare are rare for a reason. Craftsmen didn't need them. To think that one can't live without a 10 1/4 or 85 is absurd.

James - You'll just have to believe me on this one, but I'm definitely not rich by most people's measures, and don't intend to sound like it, either. My point is that there are a heck of a lot of us that despise "value hunting", and beyond a certain point, it really isn't about income. Generally speaking, I won't spend much time at all hunting down whatever the best deal is for whatever it is that I'm trying to do.

It's not exactly woodworking, but re-waterproofing my deck last week was a good example. I purchased the Home Depot (Behr) brand of deck stain/sealer without looking to see if Lowes (or Sherwin Williams) had something less expensive, because comparison shopping is, to me, and annoying waste of time. There are many of us like that, and I didn't do it in grad school when I was a pauper by anyone's standards.

But there are plenty of folks for which getting the best deal is a goal worth pursuing, and to which they will put much of their time. But it's far from universal.

[Nathan Callender]

I don't think anyone mentioned this yet, but why is everyone pitting LN/LV against old used planes? There are other, more affordable new options as well that, while maybe not as perfect, will get the job done.... or is that a heretical comment? :-) And then, there's the whole other world of building wooden planes.

There are many ways to set up shop - frankly, it's personal preference and I'm happy so many people do it so differently. Life would be boring otherwise.

[Doug Shepard]

For me it has to do a lot with shop time. I continually struggle to find enough and what I do have, I'd rather spend working wood than working an old plane. I've brought a couple of old ones up to usable condition but they dont hold a candle to the LNs or LVs in terms of backlash in the adjustment mechanisms. Seems like I always have to ride the adjuster to just try and maintain the same cut setting. Dont have that problem with the LN/LV crew. Then there's the thicker blades and generally tighter (or adjustable) mouths that just plain work better. That's my $0.02.