End-grain bowls: what am I doing wrong?

[Eric Meier]

So I had a big log section of Elm sitting around (~8" round and 4" thick), and I decided to make a bowl out of it.

Things started off innocently enough: I screwed a faceplate into what would end up being the inside of the bowl, and I turned the outside of the bowl. I noticed that the shavings coming off were a bit more "dusty" than usual, and not whole shavings, even though the scraper I was using was pretty sharp.

I turned a dovetail tenon on the bottom for the scroll chuck, and then remounted it that way. Then when I went to turn the inside of the bowl, I first tried using a 2" forstner bit, which got about 1/4" in, and got too hot. "Oh well," I thought, "I'll just turn it away by hand with a bowl gouge." So I start to hollow out the bowl---and I know the tool is pretty sharp---and yet I can immediately notice a problem.

I can't for the life of me make a cut of any appreciable size or depth without the tool catching. I have to turn the gouge almost upside down for it to not catch, and it hardly cuts at all. The round-nose scraper is just as bad. So, after having my heartbeat greatly accelerated by several catches where the bowl blank was jerked off the chuck, I decided to give up for now.

It was then I realized that I was turning into END GRAIN, and not side grain like usual. At present, with the tools I have, this task seems impossible.

Did I miss something? Why is this so hard?

(I should add that the Elm blank is also almost dry: I have no idea as to the actual MC, but I know its not green.)

[Jeff Nicol]

First off end grain of any wood that is dry is harder, but with elm it goes into another world! Cutting end grain is a slow process with scrapers and gouges. I use one of the drill bit cutters that I regrind for all the end grain cutting I do. You can use a hook tool also if you have one. The best way to start for me is in the middle of the blank and work out to the rim. Use a smaller drill bit or a 1/4" spindle gouge to start a hole in the center. Like you said the gouge will be laying on its side almost to do a shear scrape rather than cutting. Once you get to depth then using a sharp scraper will work as you cut from the deepest part pulling back out to the face or rim. If you have an Oland tool (Steel shaft with hole in end for cutter) put a HSS square cutter in with a radius grind on it, that will work good too. It will take smaller cuts that are mostly scraping.

So just play around with what you have until you find the best way to get it going. Smaller cutters are better.

Good luck,

Jeff

[Jon McElwain]

I wouldn't expect much from a forster bit in any type of end grain, especially not dry elm. In addition to the above comments, I might suggest putting a fresh honed edge on the radius scraper, then running a burnisher over the edge. Cut with the handle end slightly elevated. That should cut although you'll likely have to sharpen often with the dry end grain wreaking havoc on the edge!! If you have anything less than a cryo treated tool, I'm guessing you'll have to sharpen every few minutes.

Let us know how it turns out!

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree that end grain Elm is pretty hard to turn and you've gotten some good advice. I have found a good sharp bowl gouge works the best for me. End grain and a scraper just doesn't work for me.

[Ron Erickson]

End grain bowls need to be worked from the middle out to the rim. That way you are not cutting into the end grain.

[Eric Kosanovich]

You could try a Ci1 maybe that would help.
Not real shore but i love this tool.
Seems to cut just about every thing

[Tom Giacomo]

On end grain I realy like a hook tool or a hollow master.

[Curt Fuller]

Dry elm can be hard however you're trying to turn it. But attacking it head on into the end grain would be very difficult. Whenever I turn end grain I usually drill a starter hole both for depth reference and also so I can work my way from the side of the hole outwards, usually using a scraper with the burr ground along the side. You still get a lot of chatter but it's the better than having a gouge ricocheting off the endgrain.

[Brian Greb]

As long as your learning your doing nothing wrong... But as the others said work from the center out and use scapers with an aggressive bur. Think hollow form... Same technique. Have fun and be safe.