Shapton Ceramic Water Stones?

[Christian Castillo]

As far as flattening goes, you can start yourself off flattening for cheap with sandpaper, but as time goes, it turns out to be the expensive alternative as sandpaper wears fast and the cost will accumulate. In the long run its actually the expensive alternative and the messiest one to boot. If you are willing to take a instant hit to the wallet and get it over with for a while, DMT Diasharp plates do the job well. however, for very coarse stones (500 grit and below) I recommend sand paper as the coarse stones are not likely to be used often ( unless you chip your edges constantly or restore a lot of old tools) and the coarse stones will wear out the diamond lapping plate fast. The Shapton diamond flattening stone is probably the best one out there but is very costly. Being so costly, it is suggested you use it only to flatten stones 4000 grit and above to avoid premature wear, unless of course you don't mind spending 3XX$.

If you want something in between the price of DMT and Shapton, there are the Atoma diamond lapping plates. They are around 100 dollars and the guys on the shaving razor message boards say they are flatter than the DMT diasharps and have the diamonds arranged in patterns so that there is no suction to the stone being flattened. You must apply pressure evenly and carefully while lapping if you use a diamond lapping stone more-so than a larger surface ala sandpaper on a reference. In the past, I have experienced what David has mentioned by lapping fast and heavy handed and without much thought.

[Tony Shea]

Well that's good news David, you expect these Shaptons to last that long. I was actually somewhat concerned with the life expectancy of them due to their size. But that's very reassuring. At one point I was contemplating buying the DMT Dia-sharp stones but heard a few places that they aren't usually very flat. Just can't imagine that DMT thinks they can sell diamond plates that aren't flat, what's the point. They go on to say "The diamond surface is ground to be very flat". Well that's real nice but the plate your putting the diamonds on isn't flat then why bother. And I've used a regular DMT 6" stone and really don't care for it too much. I don't like the holes in the metal as I tend to get hung up when honing a small pointed object such as a marking knife. So hence my reasoning for considering the Shaptons. I appreciate the help and think I will def go with some Shapton Glass stones. Any good suggestions on where to buy these that might come in sets of 3? Sharpening supplies.com has a set but I don't like the combination they offer (500, 2000, 16000). It just seems as though all steps are a big jump to grit size. I also don't need a real coarse grit as I decided I do fine with 80 grit paper glued to a plate of glass.

[Jim McFarland]

<snip> Any good suggestions on where to buy these that might come in sets of 3? <snip>

I haven't compared prices recently but Craftsman Studio is a very good vendor in my experience.

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_...neProducts.htm

[Rick Erickson]

I think it depends on your sharpening method. I own the Shaptons (1000, 4000, 8000, 16000). For sharpening plane blades and chisels I use 1000 and 16000 exclusively. I use the 1000 for a secondary bevel straight from the grinder. I then go to a 16000 for a tertiary bevel and a secondary bevel on the back of the blade (ruler trick). I only use my 4000 and 8000 for initial flattening of the backs (if necessary). The stones last a very long time - no worries there.

[Brian Kent]

I am extremely happy with this set:

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/Q0000010.htm

[Alex Silva]

www.sharpeningsupplies.com
www.chefknivestogo.com

Now the last site carry also the Naniwa Super stones almost 1'' thick and I've ordered the #1000 and #8000 from them.

Cheers

Alex

[Tony Shea]

How's the wear on the Naniwa Super stones? Do they dish out pretty fast on tools like chisels and plane irons compared to the Shaptons Glass Stones? Are they more of just a regular water stone in construction?

[Derek Cohen]

I have Pro Shaptons for a some years now - 1000/5000/8000/12000 (Mostly the 1000/5000/12000 are used).

To flatten these I first used a 10" DMT Extra Coarse diamond stone. This is rated at 275 and did a great job. Quick and flat.

After a few years I had an opportunity to try out the Shapton diamond plate, which is also rated as 275 grit. For some reason this just felt more comfortable and easier to use, as well as quicker. I cannot say why. Anyway it was expensive and I really could not justify the cost when I had a successful system.

A year goes by and I am offered a new, unused Shapton diamond plate at a deceased estate sale. The price was too good to pass up, and so I bought it.

Its been a couple of years since the Shaptin DP came to live in my shop. The more I use it the more I like it over the DMT. However, the DMT would make 99% of users very happy.

It is a lot of nonsense that a diamond plate will wear out on water or ceramic stones. They most certainly will eventually wear out on steel ... but not on the Shaptons. The lower grit stones are more important to have flat that the high grit stones as they are the ones shaping the steel. The high grits just refine/polish the final shape. Reserving the DPs for the higher grits is a total waste. Use them and enjoy them!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Ruperto Mendiones]

Speaking as a graduate of handtools [aka sharpening bootcamp] at Cerritos College:

Because I could not achieve a good polish on A2 steel, I switched from all DMT stones to Shaptons. I have been using 1000, 4000, and 8000 grits. A classmate at Cerritos College has the 16K stone and says that he notices little difference from stopping at 8K.

It seems to me that the ~$300 diamond flattening stone that Shapton offers removes less material to achieve a flat surface than sandpaper on glass. Too, it is much more convenient.

As an observer of many sharpening methods my classmates used, I find the Shapton stones produce the best results with the least time and effort.

[Ross Canant]

I use the Pro Shaptons as well, 1000, 5000, 8000. I flatten mine using the abrasive powder on an old metal lathe faceplate, a big one. It works just fine and cost $5.

[Alex Leslie]

I've been using abrasive films on a glass plate. Lee Valley has a good selelction. I think $1,000 worth of films might outlast the same in stones at my shop.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...04&cat=1,43072

I have also thought about trying one of these:

http://www.blumtool.com/pages/sharpeningjig.html

Anybody have any experience with one?

[Eddie Darby]

How can you grow out of Scary Sharp?
It is far better than waterstones.

The problem with waterstones, that Shapton manage to solve with their diamond lapping plate is that stones go out of flat.

Glass Diamond Lapping Plate - $319.95

Sandpaper on a granite plate will always be flat!

The key to getting sharp edges is having a truly flat surface on your abrasive to start with. Anything you try to do on a surface that is not truly flat will only be bound to fail.

[Alex Silva]

well you can flatten that waterstone with sandpaper on a granite plate..

[Sam Takeuchi]

Or use a simple diamond stone (even a $25 one would do if it's flat, mine is) to flatten water/ceramic stones no problem. No need to have supplies of abrasive papers either.

While flat surface may be desirable for sharpening, the kind of flatness more fitting for machine production and metal working is really not going to do that much over a blade sharpened on a stone that hasn't been flattened to that kind of precision.

In fact, if blade has to be sharpened on a truly flat surface in order not to fail, most woodworking bladed tools of the past 3000 or 4000 years failed. But they didn't, because it's not necessary. Of course you shouldn't be trying to sharpen a blade on a stone that's visibly bumpy and can feel the bump or dip, but a lot of people have ways to compensate for minor irregularities in order to achieve acceptably flat and straight edge. It may not be as straight or flat, but fine for woodworking.

[Tony Shea]

How can you grow out of Scary Sharp?
It is far better than waterstones.

I'm just not convinced that the scary sharp is giving me quite the edge I can get from a water stone but have no experience with stones to base that opinion on. Don't get me wrong my edges are truely sharp and may be as sharp as they're going to get. My biggest issue is I don't really like the feedback (feel) I get when using 3M micro abrasives. Especially when getting into the 5micron to .3micron. It really offers no feedback what so ever. I actually like the 15 micron and would probably keep that grit around and skip out on the 1000grit stone. I'd actually like to try someone's stones to see what it's like in the higher grits to see if I like the results any better.