Shapton Ceramic Water Stones?

[John Coloccia]

I looked at them. The 30,000 grit one is very expensive!! I have the Spyderco black and white stones. They have served me quite well,and aren't that expensive. They were $24.00 each when I bought them. Don't know the present price. A few strop strokes and they produce a mirror edge. I just put some Flitz or Simichrome on the smooth leather glued to a board that I use.

If you buy the Spyderco,get the super fine one. The fine ones are the same,but aren't perfectly flat,and have ceramic fuzz in places. I scrubbed my white one on a diamond stone for an hour to flatten and smooth it out. Now,with the newer super fine stone,you get a nice,flat,fully smooth stone. They are about 1/2" X 2" X 8",and will NEVER wear out or get hollow.

OK, everyone. George nailed this one. I was getting tired of my waterstones and wanted to try something simple. I picked up a black and white (ultra-fine) Spyderco stones to try them. Here are my observations:

The ultra-fine was dead flat but the black stone was was out...way WAY out. I've been rubbing it with a coarse diamond stone, and it's getting flat...it will take a while.

I spent a couple of hours re-sharpening some chisels and planes. First I put them on my Tormek to fix up the edges and get a hollow grind, because that's what I like. I didn't bother to surface the wheel to the "finer" grit. I just took them off however they came. Then I took them to the ultra-fine Spyderco. It takes about ten swipes to completely remove the Tormek's coarse scratch pattern. Then I stropped it with Simichrome.

And the end result? Guys, these things are sharp, and I mean SHARP. Ridiculously sharp, actually. Not only that, this is by far the fastest I've ever sharpened in my life. Mind you, I wasn't just touching up my bevels. I changed all my LN chisels to a 30 degree bevel. That took all of maybe a minute on the Tormek...maybe 1 1/2 minutes if you count setup time. Then another minute to hone them on the Spyderco and maybe 30 seconds to strop them.

No flattening stones. No spray bottles. No sharpening juice all over the place. Do I have any gripes? Yeah. The stupid stones are only 2" wide so I have to sharpen my larger plane irons without a guide, using circular/figure 8 patterns instead of long strokes. This is really not a big deal, especially with the hollow grind. I wish they had a slightly wider stone though. I guess I can use the guide at an angle, but there's really no reason to.

Anyhow, you don't really hear much about these stones other than George constantly recommending them so I thought I'd chime in as a recent convert. The ultra-fine is the real deal. The black one is disappointing but I suspect I may not use it other than an initial flattening of the back of a chisel, and by then I'll have gotten the stupid thing flat

[Joe A Faulkner]

... The stupid stones are only 2" wide so I have to sharpen my larger plane irons without a guide, using circular/figure 8 patterns instead of long strokes. ...

John, I noted that at least one on-line supplier offers the ultra fine spyderco in a 8x3.

[Russell Sansom]

It's always interesting how our experiences vary.
The Shaptons have turned out well for me...and I've been sharpening to my own ( perfectionistic ) satisfaction using oil stones for decades. It's the "sprinkle and go" that makes a big difference for me. If I'm in the middle of a project, I have no hesitation walking over to the sharpening station, spritzing the couple stones of interest, and touching up a chisel or a plane iron. This is followed by a conscientious drying with a rag, and I'm back to work after two minutes. The process with oil of years past wasn't much different but it was a little harder to wipe off the oil.

Can't picture using the 16k Shapton following a 1k. It seems to me that the 16k polishes, but doesn't remove scratches. I generally go 1k / 5k / 8 k. Usually two or three strokes on each stone does the trick. I take two brief swipes on the 16k if it's an all new edge. According to what I see in the low powered microscope, on a mid-project touch-up, the damage on the leading edge is out of range of the 16k.

[Tri Hoang]

I normally use a 1500/5000/12000 sharpton pro system and find them satisfactory - fast cutting, no need to presoak. I also use a Bester 500 for shaping. Sometimes, I think a 3000 would be a nice addition when I don't use micro bevels (mostly on chisels).

[Mike Brady]

Anyone know why Lie-Nielsen quietly dropped the Shaptons from their catalog? At WIA they were sharpening with Nortons.
I know you guys with Shaptons are gungho on how flat they stay but every time I see them used in videos or seminars, the user flattens them first with that dearly priced diamond hone. That has to take its toll on a stone that is pretty thin from the start.

[David Weaver]

They don't wear too quickly with a diamond hone, the matrix is too hard, and hopefully they were only wearing at them with the diamond hone until they got all of the swarf marks off the stones. If they were doing more than that, it's just wasting stone.

Still, I have no idea why shapton tried to shove the glasstone down the throat of the US market. The marketing hooey about not using the whole stone so glass is a better idea for the bottom doesn't pan out if you just attach the stone to a good substrate to begin with, and the glasstones aren't exactly a pleasure to use without a base - at least not once you've used a stone with a good heavy base and some grit. As a buyer, I want all of the sharpening media i can get, and I'll figure out how to use it, especially on a stone that's $100.

If value is of concern at all, the diamond lapping plate they sell is a waste of money, dearly priced is absolutely spot on. I'm sure it works well, but so does a $100 atoma.

It may also not have helped that LN probably had to go through an importer to get glasstones, which is just too many layers of people wanting a piece of the pie.

[Derek Cohen]

......Still, I have no idea why shapton tried to shove the glasstone down the throat of the US market. The marketing hooey about not using the whole stone so glass is a better idea for the bottom doesn't pan out if you just attach the stone to a good substrate to begin with, and the glasstones aren't exactly a pleasure to use without a base - at least not once you've used a stone with a good heavy base and some grit. As a buyer, I want all of the sharpening media i can get, and I'll figure out how to use it, especially on a stone that's $100.....

Hi David

I have Shapton Pros. My experience with a 5000 and 8000 was that they moved slightly (from the time they were last used/flattened). Consequently I epoxied them to 1/4" thick glass plate - effectively turning them into glass stones

To prevent them sliding, they are set into rubber holders.



These are a 1000, 5000 and 12000. Side on here as most of my honing is done with a freehand side sharpening technique.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Weaver]

They moved...like drying wood? Yikes.

A picture of what I've done with my pro stones is below. I had a scrap board of kingwood, which was pretty close to dead quartersawn, and not wide enough for plane totes. There are rubber feet like you would put on a cabinet door, and they have stayed on better than I would've expected.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=150683

(i would post the picture here instead of referring to my now defunct classified, but the forum software will not allow me to put the picture in this thread if it exists in another one)

I have done the same with the one glasstone that I have, too, and any natural stones that I have that are small. I don't like when stones move in use, especially not once they dry some, which is a nice way to really polish an edge. I got the sense when I first got the shaptons that they could fly off those plastic cases they come in and I doubt they'd survive a fall well.

If shapton wanted to add glass to something, they should've added it to the professional stones instead of slashing the abrasive to a third of what it was on the pro stones. I think they've really put themselves at a disadvantage with consumer's perceptions with that move - and perception from a non-sale is something you really can't quantify or measure. I'll bet that there are plenty of people who saw what Mike Brady describes, people scrubbing away at a very thin stone with a diamond hone, inferring that they would be spending money on something that didn't last long compared to other options. Reality may be otherwise with the finer stones, but perception rules when buying. That is, of course, only my opinion.