First Sawmill Trip w/ Found Wood

[Ronald Jones]

Hello Everyone,

This is only my second of third post on the forums, and so far I have enjoyed reading the responses to my questions. I am new to woodworking, and I am very glad I found this community.

As the title mentions, I am planning my first trip to a small local saw mill with some free wood. The wood comes from a neighbor and it is cherry, oak (not sure what type), and elm. My neighbor had the logs cut into fairly short lengths; many are right around 36" which is shorter than I would like, but it is free. The diameters range from 18-24" so I hope that I can get some decent boards out of these logs.

The sawyer I spoke with said he would charge $75/hour to band saw the logs since they are under 7' in length and would require two handlers. That explanation seemed reasonable to me. I imagine the extra handler is need since the log has less mass to keep it stable when going through the band saw.

I hope I can get some nice boards out of these logs for small wall cabinets, jewelry boxes, etc. I have a few questions, and I would love to hear any feedback or advise.

Does that price sound reasonable to anyone else? ($75/hr)

What type of cut should I ask for to get the best yield, plain sawn?

I am coating the ends with a latex spray paint to minimize any checking, will this suffice? (I'm familiar with Anchorseal but it would be a drive for me to purchase some)

As far as drying the wood, I am considering building a solar kiln or stacking/stickering and putting the wood outside or in my garage to dry.

Regards,

Ron

[Scott T Smith]

Hi Ronald. You did not mention where you are located; in parts of the country $75.00 is the norm and in other parts it would be high. I don't get the "two handlers" part though - most millers have one off-bearer and less are needed with short logs since one person can easily handle the boards.

Re: "I imagine the extra handler is need since the log has less mass to keep it stable when going through the band saw. " You do realize that any person that attempted to hold a short log steady in front of a moving saw blade would be a candidate for a Darwin Award?

Generally speaking, paying a sawyer to mill short logs does not have a good return on investment. A good portion of the time spent milling is in placing the log on the carriage, and dogging it down. Thus, short logs have a higher proportionate cost to mill. Additionally, because the weight of the log is less (helping to keep it in place), yet the backforce on the blade is the same, the sawyer will probably have to slow down his feed rate on the band/blade, thus increasing the cost per bd ft even more.

You don't mention the quality of the logs (high grade with no defects or ???), but unless these were incredibly figured logs, or special logs (such as from a family heirloom tree), etc, my advice to you would be to pass on the opportunity and either purchase green lumber and dry it yourself, or watch for some better logs.

[Ronald Jones]

Scott,

Thank you for the reply and information. I live in the Atlanta, GA area. As I mentioned, I am a beginning and novice when it comes to milling wood so I appreciate your insight and advice. From speaking with this sawyer, I gathered that milling shorter logs was not particularly profitable. I am not sure why he said he would need another handler; I was going on assumption of needing more hands to stabilize.

You bring up a good point about possibly passing on this opportunity. From slicing into a few of the logs, they look clear and free of defects, but that is only a novice talking. You could say there would be a somewhat sentimental value since the wood comes from close to the property of my first home. I may end up passing if this is going to be a lot of expense in terms of money and time/effort. This is all new to me, and I appreciate your advise.

Regards,

Ron

[Tom Marchner]

In a situation like this where you have the option I would have the logs quartersawn. The more experience I have with woodworking the more I want to work only with quartersawn wood. It warps less and in general looks better.

I've read conflicting reports about whether quartersawing actually yields less wood from a given log or not. It costs more if only because the log has to be passed through the saw more times to be quartersawn.

There are some applications where appearance does not matter, like the inside or underside of a piece of furniture. But for anything that shows I think the benefits of quartersawn wood are well worth the added expense.

[Neil Brooks]

Interesting.

The local guy tells ME that QS does NOT result in lower yield.

IF that's the case, then ... from a labor standpoint ... should QS be more ???

I genuinely don't know the answer to this one.

It sure does make for pretty boards, though!

[Scott T Smith]

Ronald, if you can give me an idea of the quantity of logs, the small end diameter, and the lengths, I can give you an esimate of the board footage yield. From that, you can estimate the number of hours invested and come up with a total board foot price for comparison purposes.

Most likely, you could buy the wood from a local sawyer for less than what you'll have in it.

There is no sense delving down to the fractional inch; let me know something like" 12 logs, 22" small end, 40" long. 10 logs, 24" small end, 36" long, etc.

Any log that has a visible location where a branch came out of it should be discarded.

[Ken Platt]

I don't think coating with latex is nearly as good as using an anchorseal type preparation. As I understand it, latex is purposely made to allow water vapor to pass through, which is exactly opposite to the purpose of coating the board ends.

Also, I've always gotten some end checking every time I've dried lumber (maybe 8 batches over the past decade or so). With boards that short, you will probably end up discarding a fairly high percentage of the wood when you cut off the end checks later.

I love a freebie as much as the next guy, and will haul stuff to my friend's woodmizer that he laughs at, but I'm not sure I'd pay $75 an hour for cutting 3 foot long pieces of oak. One thing you might consider is to cut thick slabs for use as legs. Legs are usually shorter than that anyhow, and thick stock is of course a bit pricier than thinner, so it might end up being more worthwhile to cut those logs as 8/4 or 10/4. Especially the cherry. Just a thought.

Ken

[Scott T Smith]

Interesting.

The local guy tells ME that QS does NOT result in lower yield.

IF that's the case, then ... from a labor standpoint ... should QS be more ???

I genuinely don't know the answer to this one.

It sure does make for pretty boards, though!

RE yield from QS, the answer is that it depends upon how it is milled. There are multiple techniques used, depending upon the mill and the desired end result.

"Instrument wood", is often made by cutting an entire log into "pie shaped" wedges, and then re machining each piece to be flat. If you start with a very round log with consistently round growth rings, this method produces the most precise vertically grained wood, but at a loss of around 40% of the yield.

The most common methods used by band mills and circle mills do not result in an appreciable increased waste versus flat sawn milling methods; however it is indeed much more labor intensive; involving multiple handling of the logs and quarters. Some methods do result in more loss though - perhaps 15% or so, it just depends upon the miller and the equipment used. Also, it depends upon if they are milling in order to solely meet NHLA specs, or if they are milling for the best appearance.

Quartersawn lumber takes longer to dry in the kiln. The increase kiln drying times, coupled with the increased milling time, results in increased cost for the QS.

One other contributing factor is that the most common methods used to quartersaw with a band mill results in increased handling time for the entire log, yet only 50% or so will result in QS; the rest as RS. Thus, the miller will have to absorb increased time and labor to produce RS lumber, just so that they can produce the QS. This too factors into the equation.

[David Winer]

Ronald, you have received much good advice regarding your query. Should you persist in taking the short "logs" to the mill, the recommendation to have them cut into thick pieces (for possible furniture legs, etc.) seems to me your best bet. However, When you consider the total overhead of transportation and drying you will get a much higher return on your investment with full length logs. That is, cost of the raw wood should be considered as its proportion of the total effort.

I suggest that you go to the sawyer, select a log or logs of a species you prefer, have the boards cut to your specs, and then enter the long process of getting the boards ready for woodworking. That's how I got started lo, these many years ago--then I was able to spend the air drying time learning about woodworking.

[Howard Acheson]

When were the logs cut? Sealing the ends after a few days is not helpful. The rapid drying that occurs during the first 4-5 days is the cause of end checking. If the logs are more than a week old, any damage that could occur will already have happened.

The cherry and elm should be flatsawn for best yeild and for the best figure. The oak is best quartersawn for best appearance but the yeild will be somewhat less than flatsawn.

Be sure to get the wood stacked and stickered as soon as you can. Build your stack off the ground by at least 10-12 inches. Stickers should be 1" x 3/4". Line up your stickers carefully. Cover the top of the stack with a piece of exterior plywood or a couragated fiberglass sheet. Do not cover the sides of the stack. Air needs to freely pass through the stack.

[Neil Brooks]

Scott-

MANY thanks for an excellent, and truly informative answer!!

[Ronald Jones]

I ended up having the cherry logs cut into 10/4 pieces. The majority are 24" in length and a few are 30" in length.

Thank you everyone for the well explained advise. This has been a valuable learning process, and I have great information to use next time for making a decision about taking found wood to a sawyer.

[Van Huskey]

Scott-

MANY thanks for an excellent, and truly informative answer!!

+1 Thanks Scott!

[Mark Lincoln]

So you have any photos for us?

How much wood did you end up with and how long did it take the sawyer?