Help wanted identifying 7"(No 2) plane

[Clinton Findlay]

Hey all,

Ay assistance in identifying this plane body would be greatly appreciated.

No parts came with it, only marking is "Made in USA".
I think it is not Stanley, or made by Stanley and labeled otherwise, Siegley, Union, Keen Kutter, Columbia, Eclipse, Sargent, Marsh, Ohio, Millers Falls, Fulton made by MF.

Perhaps a Fulton by Sargent? However that frog design doesn't match any Sargents....

Thanks in advance....

Clinton

[Jonathan McCullough]

Here's my #3. Looks like I need to do some spring cleaning.

[Jim Koepke]

I know there are only so many different thread pitches, but plane makers used different pitches. Stanley used 12-20 for tote and knob hardware. I think Union used 12-24.

Someone else may be able to list the actual pitches for the planes they have that are made by Union, Sargent or Millers Falls.

jim

[Dave Anderson NH]

I would also guess it's a Sargent based on the very distinctive shape of the front knob.

[Kemil Pepin]

I agree with the others, based on the frog receiver and front knob it looks like a Sargent product.

[Clinton Findlay]

thanks Jonathan,
Does that body have any other markings other than "Made in USA"... does it have 'Sargent' behind the front knob and the patent between handle and frog?.

I thought all Srgents had the Sargent marking and the patent on the body?

[Kemil Pepin]

Sargent made planes were sold under many retailers; Craftsman, Fulton, Merritt, Hercules, and others. These planes did not have the Sargent mark.

[Jonathan McCullough]

thanks Jonathan,
Does that body have any other markings other than "Made in USA"... does it have 'Sargent' behind the front knob and the patent between handle and frog?.

I thought all Srgents had the Sargent marking and the patent on the body?

Yes, on the main casting forward of the frog boss and on the back of the lever cap you'll find "408" but from what I gather they weren't always consistent about that.

There's no patent on the plane--I'm not sure they held any for this design. The Shaw's patent and the Auto-Set might have that on the casting but I've never seen either of those.

The only place marked "SARGENT" is on the lever cap.

[James Taglienti]

Nice Sargent 407 type plane. Stanley's "Defiance" line used a similar frog receiver but they almost always have a foundry mark on it. Also a Stanley Defiance era plane would have miserable furniture. That stuff you have looks tropical. Not to mention a #2 defiance era plane is bordering on mythology. If you don't have the rest of the parts, it's anybody's guess who it was sold UNDER, but it looks like sargent is the maker.

[Clinton Findlay]

Kemil,
Yep, but it would be nice to know if it was made by sargent and sold by others... not being able to put a definative name to it is really distracting me.

James:
What does 'tropical' mean? good as in 'hot', or bad as in 'not cool'.


Thanks Jonathan... David Heckels book does a type study on all the 408's, but simply says that there are variations in other models. I can't positively id it from that.

Interestingly... the frog screws from other 'marked' Sargents fit it, and the same screw thread as per the front knob. Don't know if a standard thread cut was used, and how many others used the same... I guess I should find out.

I'd really like to put a positive id on it... so it can take its place in the Sargent cabinet... which is getting pretty full.

[Kemil Pepin]

Here are some Sargent plane beds, no #2 size however.
Starting on the left: Hercules marked 1414 in front of the knob; Merritt marked "MADE IN USA" behind knob; Sargent marked "SARGENT" behind knob, 414 behind frog; Sargent 410 w/similar marks; Sargent marked only 408 behind frog (first lateral type); Sargent with no marks (second lateral type). I also found a Craftsman, marked MADE IN USA behind the knob. I don't have any of the Fulton planes to compare with these.

[Clinton Findlay]

A big thank you Kemil.

Those pics settle it for me... I'll call it a 'made by Sargent' for the time being.
Sargents are uncommon over here in Australia, so finding ones to compare against is difficult... let alone getting any of the ones that were made for other brand names.

Many thanks!