Do I want to go Tankless?

[Lori Kleinberg]

Since the announcement of the appliance rebates, my husband and I were thinking about getting a tankless water heater system. We don't really have any problems with
current system (tank) other then it being about 10 years old and it is in my workshop (garage). We do have a water softener hooked up, I don't know if that effects anything.

So have you checked into this at all? Does anyone have a tankless system? Are you happy with it? All opinions and suggestions appreciated.

We were also thinking about changing our dishwasher too, as long as there are rebates. It is also 10 years old and so loud . It was probably the cheapest unit the builder
could find . Anyone have a really good dishwasher? It is usually just the 2 of us, so we run it about every other day unless we entertain. My husband also insists on
prewashing which absolutely drives me nuts especially since I try to be GREEN (key word: trying)

[David Prince]

What kind of volume and pressure do you have coming out of your service? You would have to calculate a tankless system to be able to keep up. Many cannot even keep up with a shower. A whole house system is difficult. Are you thinking electric or gas? If electric, do you have enough service to power the unit(s).

My experience is that they work well for small areas or lower volumes and pressures, but fall short for a whole house and family.

Multiple units could help.

[Matt Meiser]

We looked into it and decided to stick with a tank type. However we have a high-efficiency tank type that uses a power vent and and PVC exhaust so the savings isn't as great. I hear conflicting stories on how well they meet demand and some negative comments on required maintenance and longevity.

We've probably saved more money on hot water by not using hot water for laundry than anything--with no ill effects on our clothes (in other words stains still come out just fine.)

[Jay Jolliffe]

I installed a Rennai gas tankless water heater 2 1/2 yrs ago and have no problems with it. It's just the two of us and it hasn't run out of hot water yet. My wife likes baths in a med. tub & I like showers. We can take a long shower & never has it gone cold. Stays at one temperature that we set it at. Doesn't use that much propane either. We use an oil fired water heater by Bock for our radiant heat & it did heat the domestic also. But we couldn't see spending the money in the summer for it to heat up 80 or so gallons of water when we weren't using it so I installed the tankless.BTW the bock is a piece of S***. WE have changed it with a new on 1 1/2yrs into the warranty. It rotted out. So we installed another & that ones on it's way out.So yes we like the tankless & will never heat our water another way.....Sorry for being so long

[Mitchell Andrus]

We looked into it and decided to stick with a tank type. However we have a high-efficiency tank type that uses a power vent and and PVC exhaust so the savings isn't as great. I hear conflicting stories on how well they meet demand and some negative comments on required maintenance and longevity.

We've probably saved more money on hot water by not using hot water for laundry than anything--with no ill effects on our clothes (in other words stains still come out just fine.)

+1 on all Matt said. I looked into one stayed with a basic tank. Tankless models are too much like my high efficiency furnace which needs fiddling and parts all winter. On my furnace the induced draft blower alone cost $450.00, and I'm on my 4th in 19 years.... I'm on my 2nd control board.
.

[Tom Godley]

With a properly designed system they work fine -- you will need to do a little research to understand how they operate.

The more common fixed output units are more difficult to integrate into the normal home and the variable output units are more expensive and complicated.


IMO the Kitchen Aid dishwashers are the best -- I have a Bosch and an Asko also and I like the Kitchen Aid better. The european units do not power-dry the dishes and have an extremely long cycle time. All the better units are quiet -- the top KA comes with both a stainless and a less expensive plastic tub depending on what you want to spend.

[Robert Alexander]

With a properly designed system they work fine -- you will need to do a little research to understand how they operate.

I had a Noritz tankless water heater put in last month. And we are very happy with it. Our old water heater was put in in 1987, and it was getting time to replace it. I had 3 companies come out to give us bids and information on their tankless water heaters. One company did not do any design work to properly size our system needs. the other company wanted to put in the biggest unit they had along with putting in larger gas piping $$$. The third company did things the right way. They measured the temprature of the water coming in to the house, then did measurements of the length of hot water lines in the house and measured the temprature of the hot water coming out of all the hot water faucets we use at the same time to get the maximum gallons per minute of hot water needed. We went with that company.
Take time to get the right information before calling a water heater contractor. And find a company who knows the ins and outs of tankless heaters. Lots of water heater contractor companies sell tankless heaters, but not as many know how to properly size the units for a house.
Just my 2 cents worth.

[Dan Mages]

I installed a Bosch in my old house and it worked perfectly for my modest needs. The efficiency was great. My estimated gas reading on the bill during the summer was often higher than the actual reading the next month.

[Mark Engel]

We had a Takagi TK2 tankless unit (LP Gas) in our last house in NH. I installed it myself. Never had any problems with it in the 6 or so years we had it.

When I installed it I also added an outdoor faucet (sillcock) that I could switch between hot or cold so I could use hot water to rinse the salt off of our vehicles in the winter.

It takes a little longer to get hot water to any faucet in the house, but you never run out. My SIL stayed with us for a few days when she lost power in her apartment, along with her 4 teen-aged kids. Those kids took some LOOOOONG showers. But there was always hot water for the next person.

Now dishwashers. We upgraded the dishwasher the builder had installed in this house with a Whirlpool Gold. It holds a lot of dishes. The cycle time is quite a bit longer than our old dishwasher but it is very quiet. The only thing you can really here is the water when it is filling.

[Lori Kleinberg]

Thank you for the replys in regards to the tankless system. I think there is more to it then we care to handle right now.

As far as dishwashers go, I think we are leaning towards a Bosch we saw at Lowes. They have 10% off, free delivery and installation and hopefully a $125 rebate from the state. Oh yeah, 0 interest for 12 months.

[Colin Giersberg]

Check with your utility company (electric or water dept.), they may sell a Rinnai or comparable tankless unit for a lot less than going through a certified dealer. Our city utility will sell us a Rinnai 7gpm unit for $800. Since we need a gas line run to the location where we want the unit, we wont save any money on the cost of that, but we are still saving on the unit.

Regards, Colin

[David Prince]

They measured the temprature of the water coming in to the house, then did measurements of the length of hot water lines in the house and measured the temperature of the hot water coming out of all the hot water faucets we use at the same time to get the maximum gallons per minute of hot water needed.

This is a very important point also! The temperature of the water from your source! If the water is too cool coming into your house, the tankless may not be able to get it hot enough.

[Matt Meiser]

This is a very important point also! The temperature of the water from your source! If the water is too cool coming into your house, the tankless may not be able to get it hot enough.

So what's too cold? Our well water is about 52 degrees all year.

[Tom Godley]

The temp of the water does not matter -- you can size them accordingly. When the incoming water temp changes dramatically from summer to winter -- that is when you can have problems. You must size the unit for the coldest water at a given flow and if the unit has a static output it will be oversized and cycle in the summer.

The whole point is to eliminate standby loss and extend output. So if you have a weekend house or a house at the beach that you only use on the weekends and then require a lot of hot water -- they are worth trying a switch out.

But the saving for a small family using the normal amount of hot water everyday is often less than the cost of the switch. Differing fuel costs and rebates can obviously affect this.

They are also great when you put in an addition. Say you add a master bath with a big tub. Using an instant unit eliminate the long water run from the current system. The standby loss from the over sized storage tank required for the infrequently used tub is eliminated. And they are small and easy to find a place for.

[Pat Germain]

I have a Bosch and an Asko also and I like the Kitchen Aid better. The european units do not power-dry the dishes and have an extremely long cycle time.

I've been running a Bosch dishwasher for about six years and I love it. FYI, Bosch dishwashers do "power dry" the dishes. You just have to turn this feature on. Since electricity is crazy expensive in Germany, the "heated dry" feature on a Bosch dishwasher is OFF by default. You simply look in the instruction manual which tells you how to set it to ON.

I agree the cycle time is kinda long. But it's so quiet, I typically can't even hear it running. And it does a great job at getting everything clean without having to pre-wash anything. Strangely, it does not have a food grinder. Yet, there's almost never anything left in the strainer.