How to keep the family away from the projects

[Paul Johnstone]

You are pretty much screwed.. I am sorry, but adults aren't likely to listen or sympathsize with you.

I agree with the others.. find a way to put away all the tools when you are done.

If you are putting finish on something, warn people in the house that it is wet, please do not touch.

It sounds as if your grandfather has no respect for your projects, if he's using your project as a workbench and banging it up. I find that sad. You have already mentioned that it bothers you, yet he continues to do it.
Even though you are a kid, he should respect your project. Frankly, I don't see a lot of hope here. He thinks what you are making is junk, and thus he is free to use it for his own purposes.

Sadly, the best advice I can give you is to put this hobby on hold until you become an adult and have your own place where you are the king.
Grandpa is going to continually trash your stuff. It has already caused bad feelings and it will continue to. So save your tool money in the bank.
Don't worry, you will be 18 soon. It seems like it is way in the future now, but the teen years actually go by quick. Enjoy them.. Plenty of time for woodworking later in life.

[Brendan Plavis]

So I like your spirit but I think you are out of line a bit.

Maybe their perception is:

You are out there working where they do not want you to be.
You do not clean up after yourslef.
You leave tools and projects out.
The stuff sits messy/cluttered untouched 5 days a week.
You do not take out the trash like you should be doing.

The first sign of some sheet they have to sign with your rules - MAN - At 15 You would be pushing a lawn mower and walking the beans until your heels ached.

Never forget:
You are a guest of every adult in that house (even Gandpas Social Security check trumps you)
You do not own half of anything in that house
You do not make any rules
You going to ww school does not make you entitled to anything

It is time to get a work permit and a job bro. I think you need a 'boss" that is not a parent.

I have a job thank you very much. Due to the economy, local places are not hiring my age during the school year, but I do have a friend that hires me every summer. And believe me, I do not get taken easy on(she threw a can of tomatoe sauce(its a concession stand) at her son, and sliced her husbands arm open with a spatula....) so please dont play the card that I do not know what work is, thanks.

"You going to ww school does not make you entitled to anything" I never said I was going to woodworking school. I am actually looking at somewhere such as MIT or Boston University(or college, I forget which has the program I am looking at.)

"You do not take out the trash like you should be doing." How do you fathom that? I never said that I don't take out the trash...

"You are out there working where they do not want you to be." Another one that I have no idea how you fathom this information. I stated that my father has no issue... its my grandparents.



As for the rest of the replies, I thank you very much.

Rod, I appreciate the insight. The main issue I have with working around others, is that I do not like the distraction, when working with tools that tend to process limbs into shaved steak quite quickly. Today for example, I was out working on my desk. I was cutting a piece of furing strip(using this for the mounts for the tray track(yea, I know, its not the prettiest, but, I need something that just plain works...) and my little brother(5y/o) was kicking a ball at me. I finally snapped and said "keep the ball still, or I am going to pop it" my grandfather finally stopped him till I finished cutting, but, it should go without request, that when someone is cutting something, horse play is not permitted. And then my grandfather condones to the brat kicking the ball at my unfinished desk. I mean seriously, I am not building it for it to be used as a target... Those are just two examples... If the family would be helpful, then I would permit, but to have them being destructive/down right dangerous, that is something I take issue with.

Thanks you
-Brendan

[Leo Devera]

As someone who has had the same problem, and similar attitude, I think I can help.

When it comes to your family, keep the garage clean. Your parents need to use it for whatever just as much as you do, and they do have the trump card of owning it. So I'd suggest moving stuff out of the way when you don't need it. My garage is pretty much a shop, but one wall isn't, and everything slides away from that wall when I'm not working, which leaves them the room they need to do whatever.

As far as your little brother goes, he doesn't know any better. That is what little kids do. I'd suggest instead of fighting him you show him what you are doing and get him into it too. My brother (although older) used to be the same way. That was until we garbage picked a futon and needed to replace a few parts. When he was sawing the glide block I could tell he was really learning how quickly stuff will go wrong with it if you have major distractions. He hasn't bothered me since.

Also with the parental units, fix stuff around the house. Nothing is more convenient to them than a son who is doing the remodeling project while they get to relax and inspect the work every now and then. This is especially true if they aren't the best with their hands, and something such as changing a light fixture or painting some walls isn't the easiest task for them. It might be easy to you, but it probably isn't for them. And even if you are just assisting, having 2 people painting makes the process a lot easier.

As far as your grandpa, I'm not sure really what to do. I like the suggestion of doing a project with him, and talk to your parents about it too. But when you are taking up all of their real estate, you can't just build projects for yourself.

[Van Huskey]

Try leaving the garage and your work area cleaner and neater each time you leave your projects. In essence work for your shop space.

[Marty Paulus]

Brendan,

OK son it is time for a reality check here. As stated, it is not your garage. Your father may not have an issue but I think your grandfather is trying, in his way, to teach you that you need to learn to clean up when you are done for the day. It may seem like OCD, but a clean work place is a safe work place. Work with gramps to find some common ground. Putting the tools away and sweeping up each night may work wonders with him. It will show him you have some pride in your work and workspace. If you leave the area trashed he will look at it as a trash pit and treat it as such. How long have you been working on the desk? How often do you work on it? I know that my son tends to start things and never finishes them. I have tried to instill a sense of accomplishment but he still leaves things half done and I have to clean up the mess afterwards. That may be what your grandpa is seeing.


I just re-read your first post and realized that you have a table saw available to you that is your grandfathers. You also state that he wouldn’t rip a 2X4 for you and suggested you buy a 2X2 instead. Your grandfather may have more knowledge about what you are doing then you give him credit. Ripping a 2X4 may or may not yield a straight board. I would say most likely not. Most dimensional lumber from the BORG will warp and twist when ripped. At least a 2X2 has half a chance of staying straight. You said the grandpa wouldn’t let you use finish nails to put your mitered joints together. Did it ever occur to you that a 45 miter joint is a weak joint? By telling you to use screws instead he made the joint stronger. It may not look as pretty but it will hold better. I would say your old grandpa does know a thing or two about jointery. Give your grandpa some credit and a chance. He just may surprise you. Ask for his help and guidance instead of complaining that he is there.

Another point is your comment about the ability to create a lap joint on your cross braces. You are correct in that you cannot run a dado stack in a miter saw or circular saw. But again, you do have a table saw available. You have tools available to you that will allow you to cut a lap joint in the wood if you get creative with the tools you have at your disposal. A jig saw can be used to cut several kerfs to a depth and the waste can be broke out with a screwdriver. The resultant ridges can be then sanded smooth. You now have a lap joint. Your lack of knowledge is starting to become a concern. You don’t know what you don’t know.

I am an engineer at my day job. One of my duties is to find ways to make things work. Some are conventional, some are creative. As an engineer you need to be able to find solutions to issues/problems not excuses of why you can’t do something.

[Eric Gustafson]

Brendan,

You have some tough challenges. Your younger brother and maybe your grandfather seem to be antagonistic. The sibling rivalry is natural, but I have a hard time figuring out the motives of your granddad. However, the advice you are getting in this thread is invaluable.

You get the advantage of demonstrating maturity beyond your years, courtesy of the great advice you get here, of course. As you stay organized, keep a clean shop, etc. it will help others respect you. I like the idea of having your grandfather work with you to decide where things ought to belong. If you take that to heart, you will show him respect. If you are respecting him, perhaps that will help him respect you.

I have learned something the hard way about getting along with familiy. One, I always try to respond to bad situations by doing something good. Note I said always try, not always succeed. If I get angry or frustrated, I like to find a mess and clean it up. It makes me feel better and it disarms whoever wants to fight. I try to be the first to be sorry when I get angry. That isn't hard in my house. Once I am sorry, I make it a point to apologize as soon as tempers have cooled.

Good luck in all that you do and we hope for your success.

[Brendan Plavis]

Brendan,

OK son it is time for a reality check here. As stated, it is not your garage. Your father may not have an issue but I think your grandfather is trying, in his way, to teach you that you need to learn to clean up when you are done for the day. It may seem like OCD, but a clean work place is a safe work place. Work with gramps to find some common ground. Putting the tools away and sweeping up each night may work wonders with him. It will show him you have some pride in your work and workspace. If you leave the area trashed he will look at it as a trash pit and treat it as such. How long have you been working on the desk? How often do you work on it? I know that my son tends to start things and never finishes them. I have tried to instill a sense of accomplishment but he still leaves things half done and I have to clean up the mess afterwards. That may be what your grandpa is seeing.


I just re-read your first post and realized that you have a table saw available to you that is your grandfathers. You also state that he wouldn’t rip a 2X4 for you and suggested you buy a 2X2 instead. Your grandfather may have more knowledge about what you are doing then you give him credit. Ripping a 2X4 may or may not yield a straight board. I would say most likely not. Most dimensional lumber from the BORG will warp and twist when ripped. At least a 2X2 has half a chance of staying straight. You said the grandpa wouldn’t let you use finish nails to put your mitered joints together. Did it ever occur to you that a 45 miter joint is a weak joint? By telling you to use screws instead he made the joint stronger. It may not look as pretty but it will hold better. I would say your old grandpa does know a thing or two about jointery. Give your grandpa some credit and a chance. He just may surprise you. Ask for his help and guidance instead of complaining that he is there.

Another point is your comment about the ability to create a lap joint on your cross braces. You are correct in that you cannot run a dado stack in a miter saw or circular saw. But again, you do have a table saw available. You have tools available to you that will allow you to cut a lap joint in the wood if you get creative with the tools you have at your disposal. A jig saw can be used to cut several kerfs to a depth and the waste can be broke out with a screwdriver. The resultant ridges can be then sanded smooth. You now have a lap joint. Your lack of knowledge is starting to become a concern. You don’t know what you don’t know.

I am an engineer at my day job. One of my duties is to find ways to make things work. Some are conventional, some are creative. As an engineer you need to be able to find solutions to issues/problems not excuses of why you can’t do something.

Maybe I forgot to mention to you, that the saw is an old 7.25inch table saw... as you are aware, dado sets are *generally* 8inches thus, it cannot be done.

Thankyou, but I do request that the tone be lowered to a polite level. "OK son it is time for a reality check here" This I find to be not so polite, so I must ask for you to refrain from it. Thank you for your consideration

-Brendan

[Matt Meiser]

but I have a hard time figuring out the motives of your granddad

Maybe the granddad doesn't like the attitude he gets back when his advise isn't what the grandson wants to hear?

[Joe Shinall]

Brendan, this site may not be the best place for you to come and talk about your parents and grandparents. You have to remember that most people on this site are old enough to be your parents and grandparents. It is a generation gap that you just have not hit yet. Come on here to ask questions about how to do things and any problems you are having with a project.

It sounds to me that you already know what is going to be said and you are just looking for sympathy. My dad always use to tell me that sympathy is just a word between sh#$ and syphilis in the dictionary.

Do not listen to people who tell you to not pursue your hobby. If someone told me I needed to put baseball on hold I would hit them with a bat. Just be careful and clean up and you should be good to go with some compromises.

[Mike Heidrick]

Maybe I forgot to mention to you, that the saw is an old 7.25inch table saw... as you are aware, dado sets are *generally* 8inches thus, it cannot be done.

Thankyou, but I do request that the tone be lowered to a polite level. "OK son it is time for a reality check here" This I find to be not so polite, so I must ask for you to refrain from it. Thank you for your consideration

-Brendan

More than one way to make a dado. They make 6" and smaller stacks.

Reread your original post before you decide who is being polite. No one else here is cursing.

I am not syaing you are doing all the things your quoted me on - but rather that is a perception that could be developed based on your actions and your family's actions.

Try to read and digest before responding.

Good luck.

[Eric Gustafson]

Maybe I forgot to mention to you, that the saw is an old 7.25inch table saw... as you are aware, dado sets are *generally* 8inches thus, it cannot be done.

Thankyou, but I do request that the tone be lowered to a polite level. "OK son it is time for a reality check here" This I find to be not so polite, so I must ask for you to refrain from it. Thank you for your consideration

-Brendan

Reality is a good thing... really! So lighten up.

And you do not need a dado head to cut a dado, btw. I cannot count how many times I didn't bother to install a dado head, but instead made multiple passes with the saw kerf and cleaned up with a chisel. For your purpose, that is exactly how I would have done it.

[Eric Gustafson]

Maybe the granddad doesn't like the attitude he gets back when his advise isn't what the grandson wants to hear?

I think you have something there.

[Van Huskey]

Brendan, this site may not be the best place for you to come and talk about your parents and grandparents. You have to remember that most people on this site are old enough to be your parents and grandparents. It is a generation gap that you just have not hit yet. Come on here to ask questions about how to do things and any problems you are having with a project.

.

I think following this advise will be the most helpful of all the advise I have seen you given here.

[John Coloccia]

After reading through this thread, and the other thread, I have to say that if this is a sample of how we're mentoring the next generation of woodworkers, we're doomed. I don't really expect to see this sort of lapse in decorum just because a member is young and inexperienced. I won't call any posts out in particular, but I don't see this as a shining moment for SMC.

*off soapbox*

Brendan:

Why did he ruin the stain on you piece? Was it on purpose? Have you asked him about it? It doesn't seem like he's particularly hostile to your projects. He's also destroying his own table saw with the same sort of nonsense, isn't he? You've said yourself that the miter saw's in such bad shape that it splinters wood when you pass it through. I'm guessing he likes to improvise instead of taking the time to do things right.

It sounds to me like you don't have a proper workshop. Certainly not if a table saw or your work in progress is the only place grandpa has to work. Have you considered putting your projects on hold, and concentrating on creating a workshop space for yourself? You need benches, storage etc. First thing I would do is build yourself a bench. Doesn't have to be fancy. 2X4s and some plywood. Then work on some shop storage...shelves, etc.

If you do build a bench, don't improvise a design. Build one of these:
http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/w...l/worktabl.htm

From my airplane homebuilding days, but quite usable for woodworking too

[Rob Steffeck]

After reading through this thread, and the other thread, I have to say that if this is a sample of how we're mentoring the next generation of woodworkers, we're doomed. I don't really expect to see this sort of lapse in decorum just because a member is young and inexperienced. I won't call any posts out in particular, but I don't see this as a shining moment for SMC.

From my perspective I think many posts have gone above and beyond what is probably being asked. The threads he started are not titled: "How can I make better projects with the limited tools I have?" or "Where can I learn more about joinery?"

After reading these two threads, I don't get the impression that this kid is really asking for more experienced woodworkers to show him the ropes, but rather wants to show what he already thinks he knows. Subconsciously he probably also wants some praise. Praise he's probably not getting at home. If you build something and your proud of it, but no one notices or says anything, how would you feel when you're 15?

In order for someone to be mentored, they first must be humble. Some of the posts were trying to humble him in a way that is probably not best for a 15 year old since it caused him to be reactionary and defensive.

Brendan - first and foremost, be happy with what you have and make the best of it. You have a very productive hobby that will benefit your future engineering career. Even with your limited tools, you still probably have more than a lot of your contemporaries. You also have a grandfather. That is something you may not appreciate as much now as you will later on in life.

So you have to learn to clean up since its not your garage, how bad is that in the grand scheme of things? So you have to learn to do work when your little brother is annoying you. Distractions and annoyances are a way of life. You have to learn to manage it.

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime, you just might find, that you get what you need. Try to distill what you need from what you want.