Blank Sheet Of Paper - What Size Shop?

[Joe Angrisani]

Hello Collective Wisdom,

I have been reading along for a few months and signed up last week. I have learned a lot from back searching posts and I thank everyone greatly, but I have a few questions. We sold my old house in only 5 days in early Feb, and after a 120+ viewed-houses search, we are under contract on a new place with room for a dedicated workshop well within the setbacks. She gets a 5-piece bath, we both get an extensive remodel inside, I get my shop, and I'm going to love doing it all!

I'm planning on building the shop next to (attached) and set back from the two-car garage on one side of the house. There is a side door (32") on the garage that will become the entry to the shop, and the street end will have a single car overhead door. Windows, of course, but that's all coming later in my figuring process.

I have a Unisaw (5HP single-phase) with a 50" Biesy and a Porter Cable 3-1/4hp on a lift in the table that I couldn't pass up when it appeared on Craigslist a few weeks back. $900 for everything, and it's all square and true! - I'm a retired Porsche shop owner, so I can run a dial gauge and other measuring tools pretty well. I plan on a full lineup in the shop: cyclone DC, 6" jointer, 16-18" bandsaw, drill press, new 12" Delta planer...you get the idea

My question concerns "how much space for a shop?". Please save any "all you can, then double it" or "never too big" comments, as they really don't help a newbie trying to find some information before the construction planning begins. I found lots of old posts where people asked about best utilizing an existing space, but not much on the rough design of an undetermined space. In my real world, there is a budget. I want a nice size shop, but I want to and need to keep it reasonable. I'm thinking along the lines of 600-700 square feet after filling my brain with info for the last few months. What are people's thoughts on that?

My second question concerns shape. Any thoughts on the overall shape of a shop? I'm thinking a rectangle lets you better use the space to create work zones, but my ears are open to comments. Which tends to work better, for example: a 20x36's long 720 sq ft, or a 24x30's wider 720 sq ft? They both cost about the same amount to build.

...Joe

[Steven Green]

My layout is 24 x 36 plenty of room for the shop and lumber storage. I set sleepers over the concrete and put plywood down as a nod to my old knees as well. The size also gave me space for a clean room for finish work and a small office. [Read office as man cave]. Enjoy the new shop whatever you decide. Congratulations

[Aaron Wingert]

It is pretty easy to overlook the fact that shop dimensions don't equate to usable floor space. If you're like me, you'll have all sorts of benches and cabinetry along the perimeter walls, or at least some of them. I'd design a workflow....Lumber comes in and goes to the jointer. Sheet goods to the table saw. Will you have room for infeed and outfeed? Will your machines be in the middle of the room or the edges? What kind of work will you be doing?

[Matt Meiser]

My question concerns "how much space for a shop?". Please save any "all you can, then double it" or "never too big" comments, as they really don't help a newbie trying to find some information before the construction planning begins.

People say that because its true. A friend of mine has a 32x48 shop. When I first met him it was cavernous. Now he's got 2 shapers, 2 bandsaws, a slider, a unisaw, numerous large sanders, etc...It doesn't seem so big anymore. There's been a running joke about him adding on--I've heard him make the comment a couple times lately and I'm not so sure its completely a joke anymore.

The fact is that you need to work with the space you have available, the budget you have available, and also important is what you want to build. If you plan to turn pens, you don't need a 50x100 shop. If you want to build an ark in there, 10x20 isn't going to work real well.

Also important is the equipment you have or want to have, plus the equipment you don't even know you want. My neander friend with a bandsaw and lathe works comfortably from a 1 car garage that also stores his mower and other stuff. If he put a Unisaw with a 52" fence in there he couldn't move.

Regarding shape, don't think there's a huge difference as you can do a layout that will work. However, I think 20' is a little narrow if you have more room. If you wanted to put your TS sideways in that space, you wouldn't have room side-side to rip long board assuming you have benches and other tools along the walls. That extra 4' would make a big difference there.

[Gene Howe]

My shop is 28X36 with separate lumber storage buildings attached.
The work space is adequate for me. The lumber storage buildings are NOT! I built them to small with too low ceilings.

I'd draw out my space and put in the machines and benches you plan.
Since you are starting with a bare space, I'd include space for an assembly table. Sure makes life simpler! And, a desk. And, PLENTY of light. I have 8 ea. 8" fluorescents and that ain't enough. Now, my scroll saws and band saw each have a light of their own and I have 3 free standing work lights, also. I wish I had put in two sky lights and more windows. However, all the walls are filled with shelving, peg board, and clamp storage now. If I wanted to put in more windows, I don't know where they'd go!
Plenty of 110 outlets! If you are a one man shop, one or two machines per circuit is fine. Never put lights on the same circuit as machines. 220? Plan for it, you'll need a few.
Also, plan space for heating equipment and dust collection. Both are floor space gobblers. Don't forget an air compressor large enough to power HVLP as well as nail guns/pinners. Another thought: Dust collection and compressor on their own circuits.
Just some thoughts.
Whatever, have fun!

[Joe Angrisani]

Steven....

24x36 would be nice and I'd love it, but it's pushing the budget a bit. It would be the absolute max. My rough calcs say that 24x36 will cost about 20% more than 20x36, and about 40% more than the 20x30 where this whole dream began.

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Aaron....

My thoughts at this time put the table saw and it's extension table in the center (side-to-side), and toward the overhead door end of the shop if it's more of a rectangle. The work bench(es) will be at the far end of the shop from the overhead door so they are near a double door of some sort that will open onto our back yard.

I have considered the work flow, and that's why I think 20' wide and as long as the budget allows is the way to go. As opposed to a wider but shorter 24'-wide shop. But Matt brought up a good point below while I was typing this first follow-up: The extra 4' of a 24'-wide space is significant.

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Let me put this out there: Would you experienced guys pick a smaller shop with 10' ceilings, or a larger shop with 8' ceilings?


THANKS SO FAR, EVERYBODY!

[Mike Wilkins]

I would rather have the larger shop with 8' ceilings. My current shop is 16 X 24, with an attached 16' square lumber, junk, stuff storage space. Most shops built from scratch that I have seen have been in a rectangular shape.
Seems to make for a better work flow arrangement, with the larger machines along the long walls. Make sure to put in many 110 volt outlets, at least 4 to 6 feet apart, and about 50" from the floor. And I would suggest using commercial outlets, since you will be plugging in and out more often than you would in your home. Not much more $$ than regular household ones.
Don't forget to keep us abreast of your progress.

[John Gregory]

My shop is 20X20 and I, of course, wish it was larger. I would love some room to keep the projects in progress stored, like the kitchen we want to build. After 8 years in this shop, I pat myself on the back every day that I use the shop, that I thought of putting 10' ceilings in. I would hate to give that up.

[Kent A Bathurst]

Joe - what a wonderful problem to have - greenfield shop. I'm jealous.

My shop is in an odd-shaped basement (You'd have to understand Atlanta construction practices in the 20's). Functional shop space is about 500sf; floor-to-joist clear height is 8'4". Support columns and stairway to deal with. The 15" planer is the only major machine that has to be rolled out to use and then rolled back when done, plus the DP is a little jammed into its spot - could be more convenient. I have plenty of bench space (back bench + workbench), certainly enough wood storage (I have a few hundred BF max at any given time), and many of the necessary toys - Uni+52", jointer, planer, BS, DP, mortiser, CMS on 20' bench/table, cyclone, and one lousy 36" door to the driveway. (Oh - plus beer fridge and a 25-case wine closet )

Having said that - if I had, say, 600 - 650 SF, in a rectangle with no g#&#%#n support columns, I'd be just fine. There are times when I wish I had another 6" - 12" celing height, but that is not at all a big problem to me - occasional annoyance.

Matt is correct on the 24' v. 20'. Your 700+/- SF will be fine, I think. 8' height is certainly workable.

One thing - 8" jointer, not 6". My 6" lasted 6 months before I realized my mistake and replaced it (this probably just started a fight - sorry)

[Prashun Patel]

I wouldn't obsess about size. I'd obsess about layout and then slap walls on to enclose it all.

I'd put DC in an outside closet with an outside exhaust with as short/straight runs possible to all tools.

I'd keep big, dusty p-tools on one side of the room with a door or curtain that segregates it from the other areas.

I'd enclose a small area as a walk in finishing booth with a big window that can be used to exhaust fumes.

I'd insulate the ceiling to contain heat, but I'd make it high and plan on drop storage from it for lumber, pipes, clamps, etc.

[Sam Layton]

Hi Joe, welcome to the creek.

I echo what Matt said. The size of your shop depends a lot on what you plan to do in it. In addition, I suggest 10' ceilings. My last shop had only 8' ceilings, and it was just to low. My current shop is 750 sq ft (27' X 28', with an 8' X 28' porch, totaling about 900 sq ft with the thinking porch) with 10' ceilings. For me, my shop is to small. But the city I live in would only allow 900 sq ft total. It works great, however, bigger would be better.

My good friend just built his shop, and it is great. It is about 25' X 60', with an 8' X 60' porch. By the way, he could use more room!!!

You mentioned pushing your budget. If you can push it a little and get the size shop you want, you will not regret it. It is hard and expensive to expand it later.

For me, 750 sq ft is a very nice size.

+ 1 for what Kent said about the jointer...

Sam

[Joe Angrisani]

Thanks Shawn, Kent, John and Sam....

Looks like the concensus is leaning toward a 24' width, even if I have to give up some length to the budget.

Doesn't look like 10' ceilings add all that much to the cost for the pile of materials. A little more stud cost, a little more sheathing cost, and a little more siding cost; but not much. So I'm settled on that part at least.

[michael craigdallie]

joe,

if you are looking to build in the 700-750 sq ft range then i like the 22-24 ft width.

the last shop i built we poured the foundation up an extra foot (because of slightly sloping ground) which with a standard 8 foot framing gave us 9 foot wall. this combined with scissor trusses gave us lots of interior room. have never hit the ceiling. would also recommend putting 3 - 4 skylights if the budget allows (did that and love it).

i would also build a separate room for dust collection. helps to contain the dust and noise. it does, however, have the disadvantage that it is not as easy to visually check to see if you are getting full.

and lastly (which i haven't done but would like to try and incorporate into my next shop) is to have a crawl space so that dc and electrical can be run under the floor. would also make it easy to install a nice wood floor.

cheers,
m

[Joe Angrisani]

Michael....

That's a great way to word it. I should have asked that way! "If building a 600-700 square foot shop, how wide would you suggest for the narrow dimension". You da man. Looks like I'm settled on the 24 foot width (especially after losing the better part of a foot to wall space and sheetrock).

I like the idea of boosting the foundation height, but I'm thinking forms and concrete cost more than the difference between 8' and 10' studs.

Does anyone have thoughts on pouring a slab versus creating a crawl space? Obviously the possibilty of under-floor routing is nice, but again: cost differences might point to a slab and a bigger shop instead of joists and flooring and insulation and a smaller shop. Sonuvabudget...

[Ray Newman]

Joe: first and very important: are there any county, city/municipal, or other local ordinances restricting building size?

Look into that first, then seriously look into building design and size. And I would not take a realtor's opinion, I'd find out myself from the horse's mouth.

I've known/heard of a few guys who planned a shop, then found out that building/lot restrictions, etc., prohibited the size, design, etc., they wanted.

As for doors, I prefer them to be as wide as possible. A 36" entry door just might offer some advantages down the road when moving things in/out and the overhead door might be blocked or cluttered. Been there, done that....