Hand Plane video on you tube

[rob cosman]

and an IBC blade!

[Brian Sullivan]

Still going on with the IBC-Veritas stuff?

[michael osadchuk]

I'll pledge $10 toward Jim's effort in reviewing the product.

michael

[Wayne Hendrix]

Rob,

I feel honored.

Matt,

I was thinking of using QuickTime Pro to splice a few videos together. I think it would work for that. Otherwise maybe I could send you the videos to edit.

As to others paying for the blade, I think the fair thing to do after the evaluation would be to figure out a contest for one of the contributors to win the blade or to put it into the SMC FreeStuff Drawings. Maybe we could have a Neanderthal Haven Essay of so many words or less as to why the writer should receive the blade and then set up a vote for the winner. It could be a lot of fun.

I think it should be up to those who contribute to decide.

Looks like there is $30 pledged, I can pay the shipping from WC and to the eventual winner of the contest/drawing. Heck, if it gets close, maybe I can convince the wife to let me throw in a few more bucks.

jim

I'll pledge $15 for the blade and $5 for the refreshment that you are going to need.

And for what its worth I think that you will find the blade is going to be excellent.

[Wayne Hendrix]

Still going on with the IBC-Veritas stuff?

Not really I think it has actually turned civil. Well at least as civil as you can possibly get for a bunch of neanderthals.

The real fight is going to come when Jim gets enough to buy the blade and then we have to decide who gets it after his review.

[Larry Williams]

Opinions? Okay.

A-2 steel, cap irons, cryo tempering and the "ruler trick" are all snake oil. I don't need them in my life. The only thing of value I see here is getting people to fix the worn out mouths of old Stanley planes.

I've been writing about that wear for years. Below is a photo that I've posted a lot of times to illustrate that wear. People could just file that away and move their frog forward a little and get everything you offer without the cost or ongoing cascading problems they'll have with A-2 or the ruler trick. I won't tell anyone about this simple fix if you'll just add a "but wait, there's more" line in your pitch. If nothing else, you could add it for my amusement.

[rob cosman]

Thanks Larry, got a good belly laugh out of that one. Seems we need to start a few new threads, the ruler trick would be an interesting one. That would help draw some more lines in the sand. The A-2 has me curious, take that one further please. As for the "order now and will include......." can’t help you with that one, I don’t sell them. However the next time were in the same town let’s get together and discuss this. Tennessee this weekend, you?
Rob

[Pam Niedermayer]

Funny how this IBC nonsense never gets anywhere on the other woodworking forums who are familiar with Cosmo's selling techniques.

Pam

[Mark Roderick]

Rob, I also find your comments about sharpening to be objectionable.

Your posts perpetuate the myth that sharpening is some kind of holy grail, where success can be achieved only by the specially initiated using methods gleaned from the pattern of oak leaves on the forest floor, smoke trails rising from the Eastern mountains - or these three terrific DVDs available for today's special online price of $________!

I understand that the myth serves your commercial interests, but it also holds many novice woodworkers back in general and keeps them from trying hand tools in particular. You know and I know that sharpening is not magic and really not very difficult.

Say whatever you want on your own web site, but when you come to a site like this, where novices are looking for advice, and you spin the truth in a way that could lead a novice in the wrong direction, I think you are stepping over the line.

Take this for what it's worth, but I also think you're posts in this thread are doing more to undermine your "brand" than anything a competitor could possibly say.

[jerry nazard]

Funny how this IBC nonsense never gets anywhere on the other woodworking forums who are familiar with Cosmo's selling techniques.

Pam

Well, sometimes it gets some amusing snickers!

We could end this now by starting a thread on Festool vs EzSmart....

[Jim Koepke]

Well, sometimes it gets some amusing snickers!

We could end this now by starting a thread on Festool vs EzSmart....

I wasn't aware they made hand tools.

jim

[jerry nazard]

I wasn't aware they made hand tools.

jim

I see your point.

If you must know, my serious position on the IBC/chipbreaker/video matter is that if something benefits woodworking/woodworkers, so be it. If you don't want or need something, don't buy it. We so often let silly little matters that we have no direct control over mushroom into rancorous conflict. Cosman does a great job of promoting woodworking and should be commended for it, whether you agree with his marketing strategies or not.

Anyway, my morning has been devoted to sharpening and maintenance before I start another set of drawers. I found the neatest way to tighten the lateral adjust lever on a couple of T-9 and T-11's. I used a 3/8 cast iron beam clamp as a vise to tighten the lever pin. Works like a charm and the frog remains in place; you just need to remove the tote.

Looking forward to your test results!

-Jerry (with his lateral adjustments properly tensioned....)

[Jim Koepke]

Jim you make some valid points but in my mind you come across as negative.

I completely disagree that an old stanley blade can be adequate to plane such things as purple heart. Before you go off steaming at the ears I made a workbench out of purple heart two years ago. Top is 24" wide by almost 8' long and almost 4" thick. I know what a regular plane blade can do because I flattened that top by hand and my LN had trouble doing the task and I had to resharpen my blade every few minutes. Don't tell me an old stanley blade could do the job because I know different. I was there, bought the t-shirt.

I have restored dozens of old machines and planes, some take longer then others but it is up to the person doing the work and how much time they would like to spend on a project. I factor all the work into a restore when I see the tool and I factor that into the price I offer for it. I have found dozens of old planes for $20-50 over the last few years and many of them can be out back into service in an hour. Now if I had to put it in a spooge tank for a day, clean it, make new totes, flatten the frog and re-enamel the body I definitely wouldn't be paying for it. I would only do that if I had sentimental value for it. It comes down to all that extra work does it make the function of the tool better? In most cases it is pure cosmetic application.

In life we can look at everything and compare it to another product and in our minds make us believe that we have made the best decision and never take constructive critisism and become better at our craft. I was like that two and a half years ago when I believed my sharpening practices were as good as anyone else's. One day someone showed me how much better I can do that operation. I could have sat there and argued a hundred points instead, I looked at it with an open mind and said you know what-it is better and I quickly adopted it.

I'm not going to go on comparing all the products in the market but at $70 +$30 for a dvd it is a pretty good deal. I have the Hock blade and chipbreaker-that is a fine tool as well. And you know what. I was that guy who thought I knew how to sharpen until I met Rob Cosman. It took him five minutes to show me how inferior my edges were. Now, I can sharpen blindfolded, with no guides or jigs and do it in seconds and be back at the bench working wood which is what I love. The tool is secondary-this is all about becoming a better woodworker.

I think it is a good product. Developed by a guy who has spent his life learning, developing and teaching hand woodworking skills. A woodworking product made by a woodworker.

David,

I am not trying to negate any of Mr. Cosman's work.

And yes some woods, especially those with high silica content, will dull an old Stanley blade quicker than they will a modern blade made with A2 steel.

My experience with sharpening has taught me that it is likely that there will always be something more to learn. It has also taught me that "proper sharpening" is open to a wide interpretation. What with micro bevels, the ruler trick, cambered edge and so many other theories floating about, threads on sharpening are one of the few topics that would match this one for length.

My expression of concern has been about some of the methods and claims used in marketing.

To quote you, "at $70 +$30 for a dvd it is a pretty good deal."
Since the blade will not be sold for less without the DVD, I guess my question should be does this DVD regularly bring this kind of money on ebay. If this blade is the answer to my planing problems, wouldn't it follow that one would be bought for all of my planes? How many copies of the DVD do I need?

Another issue may be just my being a little put off by cavalier sales techniques. In one post, Rob asks another person to buy a blade and asks if they need one for the #4 or for a #5-1/2. None of the RC IBC blades I have seen listed will fit my #5-1/2. There are a lot of #5-1/2s out there that require a 2-1/4 inch blade. If this blade is being marketed to those who are just beginning their use of hand tools, this could lead them to buy a blade for gandpa's old plane that will lead them down the path of frustration.

By a path of making some fun with another post, I have now possibly committed myself to doing a test and evaluation of an IBC blade and of course the video. I will likely buy an A2 blade either from Ron Hock or LN just to have another blade of comparable metal to test against it. The only after market blade currently in my shop are one no name and Hock high carbon blades.

I am sure that A2 steel will likely hold up better than any of my old Stanley blades. Especially in woods like purple heart.

Ron Hock once said something in a way that gave me the feeling he has said it to many people. He was holding one of his blades and said, "people do not buy my blades, they are buying that," and he pointed at the surface I had just planed with one of his blades. I bought three with chip breakers on the spot.

To me that is sort of what the old phrase means, "don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle."

Maybe in the days before radio and television it was, "Don't sell the snake, sell the oil."

jim

[David Weaver]

Maybe in the days before radio and television it was, "Don't sell the snake, sell the oil."

jim

Or as morty seinfeld said, "the best way to sell clothes is dim lighting and cheap fabric"

Wait...that doesn't really fit, does it?

[Dave Anderson NH]

This thread has run its course and is now getting borderline like its predecessor. All have argued their viewpoints and we are beginning to degenerate to the point where personal attacks (veiled) are occuring.

This thread is now locked.