[OP]
Guest
Yea... The way i figure it, For $20 I get maybe a 1 time use out of the plywood. For $400 I get hundreds of uses... Not to mention it may pay itself off over time, as, who knows, if I find something I am good at, maybe Ill sell some stuff...Originally Posted by Mark Smith, too
Member
I can't afford a $20 1/4 sheet of plywood but I can spend $400 on a table saw. Makes perfect sense to me!
Member
From my point of view this is the incorrect way to look at it. The bottom of that drawer will be used a LOT assuming t is built well and you like it. How thick is the wood you plan to use, anything over 1/2" is going to be heavy and look clumsy.
One thing that is difficult for a new wood worker is the cost of wood. I once built a matching entertainment center and credenza for our great room and one of our neighbor couples was over and ask how much the wood cost, I was pleased to announce it cost me ONLY $600, I think she was gobsmacked. I assume that she thought because I had my shop was the envy of the men in the neighborhood (who had only a need for a circular saw and a drill) filled with thousands of dollars in machines that the wood must make furniture dirt cheap. My point is you can do some amazing things with cheap wood (even pallet material) but it takes a lot of prep. 2X construction SYP can be nice if resawed, jointed and planed but without the skills and tools it usually just looks clumsy.
Another thing is get to know hardwood plywood, even the stuff from the BORG, it may seem expensive but it is really cheap in the grand scheme. Lots of beginners start with plywood furniture and with edgebanding it can make some really nice stuff.
In the end the relationship of wood and furniture is rather simple and you being a computer person you will get this... GIGO. This is not to say wood that some might see as garbage doesn't have something beautiful underneath but it takes, vision skill and patience to bring that out.
Member
This thread is Driving me crazy! Just go buy a jointer plane. A few swipes and you're done! Scheech... routers... band saws... plywood... Why not buy a CNC machine? Jointing the edges of two boards is about as basic a woodworking skill as there is....
David DeCristoforo
[OP]
Guest
CNC.... now theres an idea!
By mentioning BS, I was thinking in the long term... probably get more use than a plane...
Contributor
Brendan,
Obviously, you are Irish cheap. You could have all the woodworking machines man has ever made given to you free.... but they are worthless until you get wood to process for your finished items. You could rough out the edges of the boards with a shingle hatchet, then scrape them with a piece of broken glass till they mated well enough. Another option is to visit a few homebuilding sites and snag a few scraps of plywood from their disposal pile. You could also go buy a keyboard tray/drawer, and have lots of money left over by not buying any tools. I believe that most woodworkers are motivited by curiosity, creativity, and the satisfaction of a finished project. And that is only what gets them started..... from there it is tools, tools tools. I am not sure where you are on this road to creating finished items from wood.
I am not sure if you are pulling our leg, or if you really are just a newbie.....
Contributor
And where did you come up with the Bandsaw idea as being the tool of choice to edge joint with. Out of all the tools that cut, the bandsaw is probably the worst choice of the bunch to edge joint with. Not only is the cut too rough to be glued together, the cut would def not be straight enough when compared to a jointed edge on a jointer, table saw, router/straight edge, jointer handplane, etc. I saw where the tablesaw was suggested therefore assume you don't have one. I would take that $400 and check out your Home Depot for the Ridgid R4511 table saw that's been on sale. You would be well on your way to some little odds and ends with a table saw and could build jigs galore to do many different jobs that substitute other woodworking tools temporarily. And yes, BUY SOME PLYWOOD for this keyboard and make life easier on you. Plywood is cheap and a sheet will do a lot of keyboards for less than $50. Open up your wallet a little or you'll never make it with this hobby.
Member
+1 on the plywood. The big boxes sell a 3/4" plywood that is pretty good for what you are doing. With the leftovers, you could build a shelf or a jig or two. Maybe build a cheap router table which can make a nice edge jointer for the next project.
See this link for how it is done.
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rtrplnr.htm
Member
Do you have any friends that have a jointer... Friends are a wonderful source... won't cost you anything, 'cept maybe a six pack or so....
[OP]
Guest
I hate tablesaws... They scare me... I have access to a 1980s model... it doesnt cut true... The mitre guage runs so close to the blade(less than 2in), the first and last time I used it, I could feel a strong breeze off the blade...
The reason was that I thought of a BS, is because, A) I need something that can resaw(need 1/8-1/16 wood that will intentionally break upon impact) for a few school projects(science has me doing more of these than a woodshop class..and unfortunately my father has no tools to his name...) B) Anything is better than a TS that doesnt cut true. C) then I can rough cut lumber out of trees we fell/our firewood pile that we never use(some nice wood in there) D) I can just as well get a Jointer at the end of the summer, after I make some dough, and redo the tray, than get a Jointer now, and not have the tools to complete a school project...
-Brendan
Member
brendan by your last post i am going to assume you ARE new to woodworking and are in high school. if this is rite and you do like woodworking than here is some advice. don't be afraid of a table saw! it will one day most likely be your most used power tool. there are ways to use them safely and not "feel the breeze". i would find out why the table saw you have access to is off i am sure if you search this site there will be threads to help adjust the saw to cut true. it sounds like the best and cheapest solution to your immediate problem. if the table saw makes you uncomfortable i am sure the woodshop instructor will help you out. good luck with your project.
[OP]
Guest
I dont know who the instructor is(didnt take the course this year.) Not to mention my grandfather gave me explict instructions not to touch the TS, as he finds blood difficult to scrub off.....
But you are on the money, I am in HS, not *so* new at woodworking(on and off for 10 years, now that my mother is out of the house(divorce is a wonderful thing) I am finally permitted to restart... as she wouldnt permit me to use power tools(she made a fuss when I asked her if she could support a board for me to take the jigsaw to.....)
But, like I said, I dont know of anything else that can do resaws as well... I figure in the long run, $400 once is better than an arm and a leg each time I need thin lumber... Not to mention once my Grandfather takes his tools back his house, there goes my woodworking... I figure, I need something to permit the hobby aswell....
Not to mention I can always make stuff to sell, bread boxes for $10-20, bread cutting platforms(grated so the crumbs fall into a box.. for $5...et cetera.. earn back a little dinero...
Member
brendan most teachers would help you out even if your not in that shop. i would find out who he is and talk to him. he may even stay a little late one day to help joint those boards. can't hurt to ask. usaually woodshop has some nice power tools. i would love to own what was in my woodshop in high school! by the way a bandsaw is nice for resawing wood but remember that you would need a good fence setup to go with it. haven't done resawing myself but i also would think you would need some sort of sled to run rounded logs thru. i am sure there are a few people here to ask on that subject. good luck
Member
Brendan, we all enjoy your enthusiasm for wood working and really want to help. You seem to have your mind set that you need a bandsaw and aim to justify it to those who suggest not. Step back from the idea of needing a bandsaw for a minute and take in the advice being given. A bandsaw is not the best tool for all the purposes you call out. I would suggest a decent bench top table saw and a small router table before getting a bandsaw. I know you would like to resaw, and mill lumber, but the cheap saws you suggest would not do what you are asking. A decent 14" BS with a riser block and a quality blade can do all you want, but not without a lot of tuning. For this setup you would end up spending well over $600 and need to know how to tune a bandsaw, which takes time. I am sure you have talent for woodworking, and are gaining skills, but you will be happier in the long run if you take your time and don't buy equipment only because it is cheap and readily available. Everyone starts out in the same place, no tools, and limited skills. Most start out with bench tools and build from there. Until you have the income to support buying the stationary tools, bench tools are a good option to learn the ins and outs of woodworking and get comfortable working with sharp spinning blades inches from your fingers. Good luck!
Contributor
To elaborate further on what a previous poster said, a block plane 'ain't gonna' work for jointing boards as the sole of the plane is way too short. The block plane sole is only about 6" or so long and it follow the hollows of the board. It really works well on end grain and/or other small areas.
Truing the edge of board is usually done with a jointer or a jointer plane. The jointer plane which is very heavy and has a very long sole approx 20 - 24" long. Its length allows it to "ride over" the undulations of an uneven edge. The jack plane can also joint and true the edge of a board as it has a sole of 'bout 14".
The two cheaper band saw like you are you are considering will not reliably or accurately cut wood down to 1/8" - 1/16" thick. I can cut 1/8" on my Delta, but it needed new guides and better blade. I can't recall resawing thinner than 1/8", so I can't say how well it would work..
A much better band saw with better guides a better blades will be needed. And then you’ll still need a good and sharp plane to true the surface, or use a drum sander or a planer with a sled as a planer will not surface boards less than 1/8” thick. I have a 14 year old + Delta 14" band saw with 3/4HP motor. I do not do much resawing at all, but to do it, I needed to invest in a better guide system and better blades.
The cheaper band saws will not rough cut trees into useable boards -- again: not enough power and poor guides.And, even if possible, the boards will need to be kiln dried.
Or carefully stacked and "stickered" (short sections of wood separating the lower and upper boards so the air came circulate) and allowed to dry covered while exposed to the air for over a year. Then they need to be brought inside to the shop and need about 10-14 days to acclimate to the indoors. If not done properly and allowed to dry, the ends will more often than not split and the boards will cup and warp....
Last edited by Ray Newman; 04-18-2010 at 2:37 PM.
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