Upgrading to a 1 1/4" shaper, need insert tooling advice

[Joe Jensen]

Hi, gloat coming. I will be moving up to a 1 1/4" spindle shaper tsoon. Supposed to be able to handle up to 9e" dia cutters. I've been reading a ton onlinne about shaper cutters and it seems that larger diameter wiill give a better finish due to the different arc the knife takes. I am pretty sure I want to go with insert tooling. I see pro 1 1/4" cabinet sets that range in size from 4" to 6" in dia. How much difference does the diameter make?
Also, what is the quality of the Freud insert heads? The RS2000 and RP2000 look like great kits, decent price, but relatively small diameter, both the cabinet set and he raised panel cutters are 4" dia. 4" for a cabinet door set seems ok, but 4" for a panel raiser seems small.
Thoughts?
I currently have 3/4" bore cutters. I have a unique combination of old delta cabinet door cutters. Basically one set of 6 parts, and then the profile cutters for 2 more profiles. I also have a few Freeborn cutters and some junk asian import cutters.

[Paul B. Cresti]

For your "main cutters" I suggest high quality insert tooling from the companies like CG Schmidt. I have many insert sets from them. If you need the quick one off profile then get that anywhere.

[Steve Rowe]

Joe,
I have had the Freud RS2000 set for a number of years and it works very well. For cope and stick cutters, I don't think the diameter makes that much difference. I have several aluminum head cutters and they don't cut as cleanly as the steel heads. I have avoided the RP2000 set because the head is made of aluminum. I have one Garniga cutterhead and it is awesome but, that is an expensive cutter. Felder has some nice branded cutters for raised panels that work very well but, these are only available in 30mm bore. Felder usually has good tooling sales around Christmas. If you can get a 30mm spindle for your new shaper, that would be a viable option.

I generally will only buy insert cutterheads for something that I anticipate using a lot. If it is intermittent use, I will go the standard brazed head cutters and usually opt for Freeborn. If it is one time or seldom used cutters, Grizzly or some other inexpensive brand.

[Joe Jensen]

Steve, how much difference do you see between 3/4" spindle and the larger spindles? For $400 I can get the 3/4" spindle and use my existing cutters. But, part of my motivation was to move to the larger spindle and if I get the small spindle I am kind of punting.

What do you think of the Freeborn insert heads? They are steel I think. Also, they have either Tantung or Carbide.

How much is the fabled Felder Christmas discount?

[Mike Heidrick]

I have both a 3/4" and 1 1/4" spindle for my new shaper. I have the UC900 set and it is 3/4" and I did not want to not be able to use it.

I have bought the Raised panel garniga head already and hope to buy the cope/stick Garniga set before end of year. VERY pricey though but you get quite a few profiles when you buy the set.

Really depends on your investment you already have in 3/4" cutters. Getting the 3/4" spindle will let you slowly replace the cutters and you can then buy inserts from Leitz and Garniga. Leitz makes a lot of the felder tooling.

Freeborn insert tooling gets good reviews but I have not seen it. I have one LRH carbide cutter and it is nice but faily small diameter.

I have been using my Garniga rabetting/chamfer cutter quite a bit. It is very nice.

[David DeCristoforo]

Joe, I would not want to see you get a shaper that does not have interchangeable spindles. There are many times when you will want the extra "meat" a 1 1/4" spindle offers. But just as many when the smaller spindle will be what you want/need. Tooling for the smaller spindle will be much less costly and for many operations they will perform as well as their larger counterparts. Smaller cutters also allow you to cut tighter inside curves. I run all my panel raisers on a big spindle but my cope and stick cutters are all 3/4" bore. You just need the flexibility and I think it is a mistake to invest in a "fixed spindle" machine.

PS I was thinking maybe I did not understand your question. If the machine you are considering has interchangeable spindles, you will want to get both sizes....

[Joe Jensen]

Joe, I would not want to see you get a shaper that does not have interchangeable spindles. There are many times when you will want the extra "meat" a 1 1/4" spindle offers. But just as many when the smaller spindle will be what you want/need. Tooling for the smaller spindle will be much less costly and for many operations they will perform as well as their larger counterparts. Smaller cutters also allow you to cut tighter inside curves. I run all my panel raisers on a big spindle but my cope and stick cutters are all 3/4" bore. You just need the flexibility and I think it is a mistake to invest in a "fixed spindle" machine.

PS I was thinking maybe I did not understand your question. If the machine you are considering has interchangeable spindles, you will want to get both sizes....

The machine I ordered has interchangeable spindles. I've ordered 1 1/4" and a Router spindle that will run up to 22,000 RPM. I can also get 3/4", and 30mm, and maybe others. They are complete cartridges and expensive. I hadn't thought about the many smaller cutters that would indeed not really see benefit from the beefier spindle.

[Joe Jensen]

I have both a 3/4" and 1 1/4" spindle for my new shaper. I have the UC900 set and it is 3/4" and I did not want to not be able to use it.

I have bought the Raised panel garniga head already and hope to buy the cope/stick Garniga set before end of year. VERY pricey though but you get quite a few profiles when you buy the set.

Really depends on your investment you already have in 3/4" cutters. Getting the 3/4" spindle will let you slowly replace the cutters and you can then buy inserts from Leitz and Garniga. Leitz makes a lot of the felder tooling.

Freeborn insert tooling gets good reviews but I have not seen it. I have one LRH carbide cutter and it is nice but faily small diameter.

I have been using my Garniga rabetting/chamfer cutter quite a bit. It is very nice.

Mike, do you have a Felder? Which Garniga cutters do you have and where are you getting them? Which set are you eyeing? You PM me if more comfortable on those Qs

[Mike Heidrick]

I have a Laguna T1002S. It is a 5hp tilting arbor sliding table shaper.


It came directly from Laguna. I also bought my Garniga cutterheads from Laguna as well. I have the Raised panel raising set with four profiles and the rabetting chamfer 5" head. Rabetting head is on the shaper in teh picture. These both are 1 1/4".





Here is the next set I am buying. It is the Garniga Rail and Stile set.

[Mike Heidrick]

I also bought the Freud RP1000 head NIB on ebay for a steal/cheap. I still have not bought any profiles for it yet though. It sure looks like a nice head. When amazon clearences out the knives for it I will buy some. Patience pays off with them.

[Mike Heidrick]

Your Next purchase needs to be the Felder survival guide by David Best!! I own the laguna and still find it a phenominal manual on using shaper tooling. It goes way beyond Lonnie's and Cliffee's books as far as Euro shaper tooling is concerned and for a Felder saw/shaper owner it is a no brainer! Best $95 you will spend at this time. Plus it goes into way detail about your saw and the commissioning/setup that you need to do. Plus the info on your right angle fence is awesome.

It will help you to pass the time while you wait for your saw.

Get the cafe press link for it from the Felders owners group - the general link on google priced it at $150! Their link is for $95. Plus do a search for a coupon - should be able to get $10 off which should cover shipping.

Never mind - here is the $95 link for you!
http://www.cafepress.com/davidbest.14337605

Here is an awesome link with a preview and some of David's other articles. Join FOG too (felders owners group - not festool - theirs is good too though!)
http://www.davidpbest.com/Publications.htm

[Larry Edgerton]

I am definately buying a tilt shaper next time! I keep running into apps where it would be the simple and inexpensive answer. Currently I am building archtop exterior window trim that is 5" deep and I wish I had a tilt shaper to do the top 5 degree bevel. Does it tip forward or back?

No money right now so I can only drool......

Have you had that one long, and if so what do you like/dislike?

Larry

[Joe Jensen]

Larry, the Felder tilts back away from the fence.

[Jeff Duncan]

You didn't say which machine you were getting, but very generally speaking the Euro machines make better interchangeable spindles than American (Asian) counterparts. If I could only have one shaper in my shop (the horror) it would either be a good quality fixed spindle, or a very good quality (SCMI or the like) interchangeable spindle.
I find the 1-1/4" cutters leave a slightly better finish than the 3/4" versions. I've slowly sold off most of my 3/4" cutters, though if you have a good amount probably worthwhile keeping them. The other thing you may want to think about is custom profiles. Having a corrugated head or 2 to be able to have custom profiles ground can be very handy.
As for the insert heads it really depends on what kind of quantity you put out. Personally I do several kitchens a year, so I don't do the kind of quantity needed to justify the pricetag. Also remember you have to have a different cutter for each type of profile. For example, I use the Freeborn 6 piece cope & sticks sets. With one set I can do the normal profile, a glass door profile, or just the top profile w/ no groove or rebate (like for wine cooler doors). With insert tooling you'll need 3 different sets of knives and I believe from talking with one of my suppliers, you also have to have the head ordered ground a bit smaller in order to use those knives.
Just something to keep in mind, again depending on what you plan to do.
good luck,
JeffD

[Mike Heidrick]

The Garniga insert cutters above its available cuts with the three cutters - stacked in different orders.

http://www.lagunatools.com/shaper-kcsrsai

The laguna interchangeable spindles are huge but do not have the super quick 2 sec change out like teh Felder. It takes about 15-30 seconds. You need a spanner wrench as well so it is not tool less. The spindles are big money retail so work a deal with your dealer if you buy new.

The laguna's shaper fence has many features like the Aigner fence has including micro adjustments on both sides (left adjument is for the outfeed and the right adjustment moves the whole fence). It also has the safety bars to surround the cutterhead.

The tennoning table I have is 1' sold Cast Iron and very heavy duty. I am suprised the felder's is aluminum. I also have teh tenoning hood. If you are spinning HUGE heads look into this hood or make one yourself.

Marc released his pricing on his air clamp/sliding table hold downs last night on the FOG website. Check that out if pneumatic air clamps are something you might want. the Big squeeze set is up around $750. I am playing around making my own.

My machine also rear tilts the spindle from 90 to 45 degree.

I think my machine has EVERYTHINg except:

I do not have dial measurement on spindle height. I want to add that. I would also like a better fence place measurement than the little tape on teh bak of teh fence movement block. I am trying to figure out how to add both in digital measurement styl. My spindle travels 7" so the small Wixey remote remote readout will not work out of the box I do not think.