[OP]
Member
I am trying to rip tenons (first time ever hand saw ripping) on the legs of my poplar roubo bench. I thought I could get by using a crosscut saw, and it was painfully slow. So I went to Woodcraft and bought a Putsch 7 tpi rip saw. Unfortunately its not really any better than the crosscut saw. Do these need to be sharpened before use? I realize that I didn't buy a premium saw, but I expected it to work better than the crosscut saw.
Contributor
Are you sure the new saw is actually filed for rip cutting. The sharp end of the teeth should be perpendicular to the travel of the saw.Originally Posted by Clint Barden
A rip saw can work fine as a crosscut saw. A crosscut saw is miserable to use for ripping.
Teeth have to be pretty dull or misfiled to not cut. Try your saw crosscutting on a piece of scrap and if it works well, it is likely not filed rip.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
I have two rip saws (panel saws) that I use. One is a 8 tpi Disston rip and the other is a 10 tpi 60 50 year old Craftsman that was a crosscut (I had it sharpened rip). On a cut like you described, I would use the 10 tpi saw. It is very well behaved and does a nice job. I have sharpened and reduced the set on the 10 tpi until it cuts a straight uniform kerf.
I suspect the rip say you purchased might need some attention. Maybe sharpening and reducing the set would be appropriate. The Frank Klausz video for sharpening hand tools is a good place to start. The Tom Law video on sharpening hand saws is another.
[OP]
Member
I closely examined the teeth on the new rip saw against my crosscut saws. It is definitely in a rip pattern... it's probably just very poorly sharpened.
Quite a few of the teeth have a "lump" of steel on the front edge of the tooth... maybe it was sharpened in the wrong direction? I don't even know if that makes sense or not. I guess I need to get a saw file now!
Guest
That lump could be carbide....! I figured I would poke around in here, but I am generally a power tool user, so, I am used to that "lump of steel" on the end of my blades......
[OP]
Member
No carbide on this blade. It just looks like some metal that molded there when they were cutting the teeth.
Thanks for the thought though!
Member
When a saw is sharpened on a machine, there will be burrs left on the sides of the teeth. If this is what you are seeing, take a stone or diamond hone and draw it down the side of saw, holding the saw flat on a bench or saw table. Be sure and do the same number of strokes on each side. If the saw kerf drifts to one side, stone more on that side until it balances out.
Contributor
It sounds like the teeth were punched on a machine and never saw the tooth of file.
If you want it done right, you will either have to pay a bit or do it yourself.
My vote if for DIY.
jim
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Member
This is the description in the Woodcraft site.
Manufactured by one of Germany’s most respected sawmakers, these saws are a great value for their cost. German steel blades are hand sharpened and set, then mounted in European Beech handles. Backsaw has a thin .054" kerf.
Manufactured by one of Germany’s most respected sawmakers, these saws are a great value for their cost. German steel blades are hand sharpened and set, then mounted in European Beech handles. Backsaw has a thin .054" kerf.
I think Clint will have to sharpen the saw himself.
What is sad, take $50 off the price of a Wenzloff saw or a LN saw and it would be a really good deal.
Last edited by lowell holmes; 04-25-2010 at 9:17 PM.
[OP]
Member
Yes I think it was never sharpened at all by hand as Woodcraft would have you believe. I found an old triangle file in my toolbox, clamped the blade against a shop cabinet, quickly went down the saw in about 6-8 minutes and the saw cut much, much better. This is with me never having sharpened a hand saw before.
Oh well. I have a cheap usable saw now and also learned a little about saw sharpening.
Member
I don't have that saw, but I have several other Putsch saw webs for a framesaw. My experience is they came not sharpened well and incredibly over-set. Also a 7 tpi rip saw is more of a fine finish type saw; brute forcing your way through a bunch of lumber is the province of 4 and 5 tpi saws (and it really does make a huge difference). Sharpening the thing is not that difficult (put two pieces of wood on either side, clamp, file; I used to do it in a Workmate) and will improve its performance drastically.
Oh, just noted you did put file to saw already. Good for you! For all that I dislike the setup time of the Putsch saws the metal in them is fine and you've got a decent rip saw now.
[OP]
Member
Thanks. I will check into a 4 or 5 tpi rip saw next. It never ends!
Member
Actually, you probably have the making of a pretty good saw as you explore how to make it into one.
I made one of the Garlick saws into a very good saw. It's not equal to a LN saw, but good.
Member
Last night I helped my neighbor trim a 4x4 post with my Disston 5 1/2 tooth rip saw. The post was set in the ground but my saw, being sharp, made short work of it. I find usable Disstons around here quite often at really cheap prices.
Member
Dito what George says about the Disston used saws. There are other good makes also such as Hudson and Simmonds. I have bought quite a few good saws for under $5.00.
However I have spent $70. for a variety of sizes of quality files made by F. L. Grobet of Switzerland (purchases from Lie-Nielsen). I paid about $10.00 for an old saw vise, and already had a Morrill's saw set.
Most importantly, I read and re-read articles on saw filing and setting found on vintagesaws.com Buying used and sharpening myself makes it possible for me to have a greater variety of not only saws, but planes, drill bits and chisels than I could otherwise hope to afford. I also find it very satisfying to take something old and make it work well again.
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