Any tips on pricing for custom cabinets???

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I always do a full estimate by counting up every stick, every sheet, all of the other materials & supplies and every hour. The last project was two 40" wide X 84" tall X 10"deep bookcases, with solid oak facing and oak plywood cases, adjustable shelves, no doors, stained and varnished. Delivered and installed for $1500. It took 4 days. The labor was $800. I needed the work at the time so it was OK. I can make more $ doing home repairs and remodeling.

[Jim Becker]

A new member bumped this thread from 2010 ... a "necro-thread", as it were. I didn't notice that myself until Lee brought it up. All the economics have changed in 14 years for sure.

[Dave Sabo]

Keep in mind the market you are working in! At this rate you are saying $93,600 to $156,000 per year if you work 40 hours per week. You better be pretty darn good for that! I would pay your rates, but it better be good.

but you’re ok with paying a plumber or electrician or HVAC tech $200,000 to $300,000 a year ?

[Rob Sack]

but you’re ok with paying a plumber or electrician or HVAC tech $200,000 to $300,000 a year ?

How many plumber, electricians, and HVAC techs make $200,000 - $300,000 a year? Since we are talking about "a" plumber, electrician, or HVAC tech, can we assume this is net income to which you are referring?

[Maurice Mcmurry]

A Plumber, Electrician, or HVAC Tech has to have certification to be legitimate. If you want to create a company to do those jobs the expenses are huge. To build cabinets in our town all that is required is a criminal records check and a $20 a year business license. When I started a $1000 bond was also required. The bond requirement has been done away with.

[John Kananis]

You forgot the cost of a hammer and a Phillis head screwdriver. That's all that's needed, right? How about auto mechanics? All they need is an adjustable wrench? Why their high pricing? There's zero "required" certification to work on your vehicle. This is silly imho. And no two plumbers earn the same living as one another, ask for what you belive you're worth. Folks will either pay it and you'll do OK or they won't and you have to rethink things.

A Plumber, Electrician, or HVAC Tech has to have certification to be legitimate. If you want to create a company to do those jobs the expenses are huge. To build cabinets in our town all that is required is a criminal records check and a $20 a year business license. When I started a $1000 bond was also required. The bond requirement has been done away with.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

I always do a full estimate by counting up every stick, every sheet, all of the other materials & supplies and every hour. The last project was two 40" wide X 84" tall X 10"deep bookcases, with solid oak facing and oak plywood cases, adjustable shelves, no doors, stained and varnished. Delivered and installed for $1500. It took 4 days. The labor was $800. I needed the work at the time so it was OK. I can make more $ doing home repairs and remodeling.

I always start a custom cabinetry conversation by telling my clients that "I can not compete with ready made cabinetry". If they want to talk further, I get out the laptop & hot-spot and take them shopping on the web. It is a quick and helpful way to figure out what they want and what their budget is. I also tip my hat to HGTV the popularity of which has greatly reduced the sticker shock that I have struggled against for years.

Screen Shot 2024-04-06 at 7.34.02 AM.jpg

[jack duren]

I gave customers a bare price on cabinets and if they wanted to upgrade it was up to them.

[John Kananis]

Apologies, I reread my last post to you and it just sounded outright rude, which is not what I was trying to achieve.

A Plumber, Electrician, or HVAC Tech has to have certification to be legitimate. If you want to create a company to do those jobs the expenses are huge. To build cabinets in our town all that is required is a criminal records check and a $20 a year business license. When I started a $1000 bond was also required. The bond requirement has been done away with.

[andrew whicker]

Interesting on the $1500. Is that 8x4 = 36 hours or it just took 4 days overall?

800 every four days is too little for me. I guess I could squeak by.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Interesting on the $1500. Is that 8x4 = 36 hours or it just took 4 days overall?

800 every four days is too little for me. I guess I could squeak by.

It was more like 40 hours if I include measuring, talking, designing, and shopping. The materials all came from Menards so I took a hit there. It was not great but I got to spend 4 days in the shop which is 30 feet from home.

Here is a snip of cabinet shops in our town. There are several more that have no web presence including the Amish. It is a competitive area, not far from Jack Duren's area.

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[Dave Sabo]

Custom in my business means fitting the walls. Not buying a big box cabinet and using fillers.

This is one of the most ridiculous notions perpetuated by old fashioned "cabinet guys" and "sales weasels". Any kind of cabinets from any source can be "fit to the walls". It's what you pay designers and installers to do with practically every set of cabinets from every source.

IF what you really mean is that custom contains no fillers, you are 100 % in error there. Fillers are NECESSARY in practically every design for functional reasons. Your mythical "custom" kitchen with no fillers is going to annoy people when they can't open their drawers because they hit the door or window casings. They are going to be annoyed that the knob or handle on their cabinet door dings or punctures their drywall. Or, they can't open their fridge because there isn't enough room between it and the wall. And don't tell us you just make your stiles wider to take care of it. That's just a filler by another name. Most "custom" guys are really just made to measure like most cabinet manufacturers. We can agree that the box stores aren't really the place for "custom" cabinets of any kind though.

True custom is whatever the customer wants; not what you build with no fillers. You may build the best framed cabinets in America, but ya ain't custom if you can't or won't build a frameless kitchen with slab fronts from high gloss laminate with zero glue line showing. Or layup sequential matched Masur Birch panels for an inset set of cabs, or produce a kitchen with matching Stainless Steel fronts on everything. Operations that can do that ain't working for $10/hr or even $45. Most everyone that thinks or says they're custom are really just "made to measure".

I’ve got 5 cabinet shops in a 10 mile radius. I had to price to compete with those shops.

Small minded mentality. That is simply a race to the bottom. You've got to differentiate yourself from a commodity. Even your lowest priced competitor could be outpriced by an out of town manuf. who's operation is more efficient.

How many plumber, electricians, and HVAC techs make $200,000 - $300,000 a year? Since we are talking about "a" plumber, electrician, or HVAC tech, can we assume this is net income to which you are referring?

Of course. It's the same as D. Prince's cabinet guy making $45 to $75 per hour ($90k-$150K/yr.) I'm merely pointing out my observation about that hourly rate not being as ludicrous as some of you may think.

A Plumber, Electrician, or HVAC Tech has to have certification to be legitimate.

So, the certification is the deciding factor in what a tradesman's time is worth ? Is the newly "certified" cabinet installer fresh outa school better than then the grizzled veteran of 15 yrs? Who would you expect to charge more ? And how about when Paul's Plumbing shows up at your place for a service call and it's the journeyman -or- apprentice is actually the one doing the work ? He's not as certified as Paul, nor is it his license on the line , but you're still getting charged Paul's high hourly rate. You're good with that but not with paying Cabinetman Chris 1/3 of that because he's not "certified" ? Um.....................ok.

If you want to create a company to do those jobs the expenses are huge.

Let's see. Independent Plumber has a truck, a home office, and a lot of hand tools along with an inventory of copper and pvc fittings. Put a number on it. Cabinet Guy has a truck, about the same # of hand tools, a small shop (rent), plus a big slider ($25-50k), shaper ($5-10k), an edgebander ($20-250k), Dust collection, Finishing booth,& sprayers, Line Borer, ect. ect... Put a number on that and tell us who you think has the most capital invested 9or general overhead) before they commit an hour of their billable time to your project ? And don't forget many cab shops keep a bit of raw material inventory lying around too, just like the plumber.

[John Kananis]

Fantastic summation, Dave. And I quoted because it's worth a second read.

This is one of the most ridiculous notions perpetuated by old fashioned "cabinet guys" and "sales weasels". Any kind of cabinets from any source can be "fit to the walls". It's what you pay designers and installers to do with practically every set of cabinets from every source.

IF what you really mean is that custom contains no fillers, you are 100 % in error there. Fillers are NECESSARY in practically every design for functional reasons. Your mythical "custom" kitchen with no fillers is going to annoy people when they can't open their drawers because they hit the door or window casings. They are going to be annoyed that the knob or handle on their cabinet door dings or punctures their drywall. Or, they can't open their fridge because there isn't enough room between it and the wall. And don't tell us you just make your stiles wider to take care of it. That's just a filler by another name. Most "custom" guys are really just made to measure like most cabinet manufacturers. We can agree that the box stores aren't really the place for "custom" cabinets of any kind though.

True custom is whatever the customer wants; not what you build with no fillers. You may build the best framed cabinets in America, but ya ain't custom if you can't or won't build a frameless kitchen with slab fronts from high gloss laminate with zero glue line showing. Or layup sequential matched Masur Birch panels for an inset set of cabs, or produce a kitchen with matching Stainless Steel fronts on everything. Operations that can do that ain't working for $10/hr or even $45. Most everyone that thinks or says they're custom are really just "made to measure".



Small minded mentality. That is simply a race to the bottom. You've got to differentiate yourself from a commodity. Even your lowest priced competitor could be outpriced by an out of town manuf. who's operation is more efficient.





Of course. It's the same as D. Prince's cabinet guy making $45 to $75 per hour ($90k-$150K/yr.) I'm merely pointing out my observation about that hourly rate not being as ludicrous as some of you may think.



So, the certification is the deciding factor in what a tradesman's time is worth ? Is the newly "certified" cabinet installer fresh outa school better than then the grizzled veteran of 15 yrs? Who would you expect to charge more ? And how about when Paul's Plumbing shows up at your place for a service call and it's the journeyman -or- apprentice is actually the one doing the work ? He's not as certified as Paul, nor is it his license on the line , but you're still getting charged Paul's high hourly rate. You're good with that but not with paying Cabinetman Chris 1/3 of that because he's not "certified" ? Um.....................ok.



Let's see. Independent Plumber has a truck, a home office, and a lot of hand tools along with an inventory of copper and pvc fittings. Put a number on it. Cabinet Guy has a truck, about the same # of hand tools, a small shop (rent), plus a big slider ($25-50k), shaper ($5-10k), an edgebander ($20-250k), Dust collection, Finishing booth,& sprayers, Line Borer, ect. ect... Put a number on that and tell us who you think has the most capital invested 9or general overhead) before they commit an hour of their billable time to your project ? And don't forget many cab shops keep a bit of raw material inventory lying around too, just like the plumber.

[Maurice Mcmurry]

Back when I bothered to insure my business I took the courses and became certified for HVAC only to find that I could not afford the huge increase in my insurance premiums. I wanted to install Carrier, Amana, Ruud or Trane equipment. None of the makers of the better equipment will sell to a non dealer. To become a dealer requires a commitment to buy a minimum of $250,000 dollars in equipment a year. Only Goodman and a few online suppliers will sell to a guy with a van. Having a EPA 608 does not qualify a guy with a van to do plumbing, electrical, or HVAC in our town. You have to be a Plumber, an Electrician, or have a Master Mechanical certification.
I word of advice to any youngsters starting out in the trades. Be sure to get and keep formal documentation of all of your work experience. If you ever want to make journeyman or test for Master Mechanical you have to be able to prove your work experience.

[Warren Lake]

old guy suggested I get my papers in case I ever want to teach so I did. Now you cant teach unless you have degrees. Irony neither could he which is pathetic.