LOL. What I was talking about was the HOA not wanting to see window air conditioners from the street.Originally Posted by B. Mark Lawrence
Guest
LOL. What I was talking about was the HOA not wanting to see window air conditioners from the street.
Member
I am actually going through this same scenario right now, but hopefully without this hassle. I got the permit for electrical upgrade. Licensed electrician installed a new 200A panel. The city put in the new meter base on my garage. I then ordered a split AC, and installed it. Now the city doesn't know this, as it never occurred to me that it may be a problem, but I guess I will find out soon. The state, and city still have to come out for the final inspection.
Guest
If they aren't satisfied with insulated walls, ceiling, and garage door, then I guess they can consider the air conditioner that nobody can see from the street an act of civil disobedience.
Member
For example:
Gas:
- Under Section 105.2 of the Florida Building Code, permits are not required for the following:
1) Portable heating appliances.
2) Replacement of any minor part that does not alter approval of equipment or make such equipment unsafe.
Mechanical:
1) Portable heating appliance.
2) Portable ventilation equipment.
3) Portable cooling unit.
4) Steam, hot or chilled water piping within any heating or cooling equipment regulated by this code.
5) Replacement of any part which does not alter its approval or make it unsafe.
6) Portable evaporative cooler.
7) Self-contained refrigeration system containing 10 pounds (4.54 kg) or less of refrigerant and actuated by motors of 1 horsepower (746 W) or less.
8) The installation, replacement, removal or metering of any load management control device.
I quoted from Florida, having done design work there and they are more strict than Virginia. A window A/C unit is a portable cooling unit.
As far as having a receptacle installed, you are not require to tell them what it is for. It just has to be permited and inspected. (It could be for a welder/table saw or any portable piece of equipment). Most State/local codes (Virginia does for example) allows for a home occupied by a homeowner to install electrical work, as long as he/she signs the proper form indicating they do not fall under the State licensure requirements (as engineer/licensed contractor would), and they can satisfy the local building official they know what they are doing.
Our Virginia Codes says:
108.4 Prerequisites to obtaining permit. In accordance with Section 54.1-1111 of the Code of Virginia, any person applying to the building department for the construction, removal or improvement of any structure shall furnish prior to the issuance of the permit, either (i) satisfactory proof to the building official that he is duly licensed or certified under the terms or Chapter 11 (Section 54.1-1000 et seq.) of Title 54.1 of the Code of Virginia to carry out or superintend the same, or (ii) file a written statement, supported by an affidavit, that he is not subject to licensure or certification as a contractor or subcontractor pursuant to Chapter 11 of Title 54.1 of the Code of Virginia.
Basically, says, if you are the owner/occupier of the primary residences you don't need to be a licensed contractor to do work on your own house, which is the exemption under Chapter 11 of Title 54.1.
Our local York County Code says:
PERMIT APPLICANTCODE OF VIRGINIA, SECTION 54.1-1111
REQUIRES PROOF OF CURRENT STATE AND LOCAL
LICENSING BEFORE OBTAINING A PERMIT.Virginia law requires that all persons performing building, plumbing, electrical,AFFIDAVIT
mechanical, gas work, and well drilling be licensed by the Board of Professional and
Occupational Registration if the work performed is $1,000.00 or more in value. Property
owners may perform work on property they own without a license, but must provide an
affidavit documenting exemption from state and local licensing when the value of a project
is $1,000.00 or more.
All contractors are required to provide proof of Virginia and local licensing at the time of
permit application. Local licensing from other Virginia localities are honored for projects
valued to $25,000.00. Documentation is required when applying for a building related
permit. Projects that are valued at $25,000.00 or more require a County of York business
license. This must be obtained before a permit is issued. Property and homeowners are
exempt from local license requirements for work performed by them on their property.
York County business license information may be obtained by contacting the
Commissioner of Revenue at xxx-xxx-xxxx.
The sad thing is that the energy codes are good but there are too many loop holes in them. Take a toilet or a shower head that restricts the flow rate to conserve water. Great but there is nothing in the code that would stop you from running the shower 24/7 for 6 years straight or flushing the toilet every two minutes. Even with the energy requirements for certain wall/ceiling/roof construction when heating and air conditioning is "legally" installed under any code even the most stringent, there is nothing to stop you from opening all of you windows and cranking up the heat or cranking down the air conditioner. (Assuming of course you have the money to burn, but that is not a code issue.) So you can design a building to meet a maximum watts per square foot energy code, but that does not stop someone from using more than that once the building/house is occupied. One of the LEED certification points is to meter the electrical usage by tenant . HUH? It doesn't say to restrict is usage, just monitor it.
Mr. Lawrence don't take any of this personal. These types of discussions seem to flare up and will eventually get closed/locked.
Rob
Member
Jeez, I thought for a second someone was trying to wire a Sawstop with 14ga wire, a 30 amp plug and receptacle on a 60 amp circuit!!!
To the OP there is probably a fully legal solution, pursue it first then go rouge if you must.
I wouldda never thought I would hear US v. Carroll Towing cited HERE of all places. The "calculus of negligence" or "Hand test" is pretty much dead except in law schools and jurisprudence (theory/philosophy of law) jurors get basic instructions on ordinary careful people not a forumula and a calculator. This is a case where the test looks like it uses math to come to an easy answer, however math ain't easy when no one can agree on the numbers to use!
To Mark, relax a little people don't always see eye to eye but if you want to take your ball and go home it is your right. In the end it is better to just voice your opinion and let the readers perform their own "calculus of inspection circumvention". I have learned through years on many many forums people will often wade through 100 posts of dissention to find the one person that agrees with what they want/plan to do and feel vindicated.
Member
Quick work of advice ,,,,,, don't even think woodnet forums.
The boys over there get real hard nosed and known to toss grenades. They can be mighty surly and hard on newbs. I fled for the much safer pasture here.
Member
Should the ground prong be on the top or bottom?Jeez, I thought for a second someone was trying to wire a Sawstop with 14ga wire, a 30 amp plug and receptacle on a 60 amp circuit!!!
Contributor
Depends....is it being used in a hospital?Should the ground prong be on the top or bottom?
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Member
Oh yea.. I think you have stated this before about a hospital setting.
I believe it is ground prong on top but I don't remember why...?
Contributor
Dang, I'll have to tell my 12,000 BTU window A/C it can't do what it's been doing for the last 12 years... keep me cool in my Texas double garage work shop with an uninsulated garage door. The walls are dry walled but not insulated either. Damn shame, too, here I thought it was doing a good job. Here I put it on a timer so it could start up an hour before I got home and ready to go out there. Felt cool, must have been my imagination. I'm so stupid I guess I just can't tell the difference between 96 F outside and 75 F inside.
J
Moderator
In case the plug is partially out of the socket and something gets dropped across the plug blades. Ground up will prevent it from causing a short.Oh yea.. I think you have stated this before about a hospital setting.
I believe it is ground prong on top but I don't remember why...?
At least that’s what an electrician told me.
"It's paradoxical that the idea of living a long life appeals to everyone, but the idea of getting old doesn't appeal to anyone."
Andy Rooney
Member
Yea, I knew that part but I thought there was something more specific with hospitals. Maybe notIn case the plug is partially out of the socket and something gets dropped across the plug blades. Ground up will prevent it from causing a short.
At least that’s what an electrician told me.
Contributor
So the Title 24 is California specific, and not Texas-specific?
Contributor
Guys,
Let's get something straight in this thread.
I would never suggest someone go against the building code. The code is there to protect the average person from both himself and unscrupulous builders.
It is also there to protect a person who is buying a home. It means all construction, new or renovation are done to a certain minimum standard. It should not be taken lightly.
I know of several cases where wealthy individuals made some expensive modifications and renovations to their homes that were not to code. Later when promoted and transferred, they were forced to bring the renovations up to code before the home could be sold. It is certainly cheaper to do it right and to code initially than to have to bring it up to code later.
Ken
So much to learn, so little time.....
Member
The code person who told you that is correct...we just built an enclosed patio cover in University Park [much more strict than Plano] and it's code all over the state. Any air conditioned area has to have low-e glass windows and doors and be fully insulated and sealed. I am guessing you'd rather not lose the garage function.
If so I really can't see it happening any other way unless you become 'the outlaw' and go rogue without a permit. If you do, be sure to fully insulate the garage doors and get a unit capable of cooling a space twice the size of your garage.
If you do, be aware that there are many nosy neighbors out there that will turn you in to the authorities in a heartbeat, Seem to be one every other block in Texas....maybe they need a new home too. In the meantime they can cause trouble for you...another reason to go legit and do it to code.
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