Stinger vs Buddy

[Perry Holbrook]

Please forgive my lack of knowledge about CNC machines, but like a lot of members, I would love to have one some day, for several reasons. I've seen the pictures and specs for the Stinger by CAMaster and have seen the same for the Buddy by Shop Bot. I don't really know enough to do an honest comparison, so could someone give me a basic comparison.

I've heard good things about both companies and don't really want to start a discussion that could become critical of either, I know they are both strong supporters of SCM. I just would like some straight forward facts.

Are they even an apples to apples comparison?

Thanks, Perry

[james mcgrew]

i would go to both the shopbot and camheads forums, look at the machines, i have friends who would sleep with thier shopbot and some who have told me if the camaster had been available when they bought thier shopbot then they may have made a different decision, on a good note both companies are better at being behind thier machines than most any other "bar none" on the market. you pick one get behind it and they will get behind you!! as far as comparisons the buddy cost a good bit more will handle a heavier spindle yet the stinger has excellent z speeds meaning shorter machine times in 3d projects.

jim

[Guy Mathews]

Jim is CAMaster heavy so he tends to be their biggest cheerleader. I have and have had at the company I am leaving shortly, both a ShopBot and a CAmaster. Like Jim said, both are excellent machines and the customer support for both is bar none.

With my leaving the company soon I will have limited access to the machines that I have grown quite fond of. I will say nothing bad about either machine. I will however say this. Within one year of buying our CAMaster, we decided to sell our ShopBot. The main reason was because the CAMaster we purchased was larger and also had an automatic tool changer allowing me to use up to 5 different bits in the same file for cutting. Basically, I drifted away from the ShopBot because the CAMaster was easier for me to program and do bit changes with.

With my leaving New Wave, I am pursuing a small machine for my basement workshop. I am currnetly awaiting a quote from Joey at CAMaster for the new Stinger. It never even occured to me to call ShopBot.

I guess I am CAMaster heavy also. Don't get wrong, ShopBot has been in it for a long time and their software and machines are great.

The CAMaster machines are solid welded frames and basically you take them off the truck, out of the crate, level them, off, hook up the electric, G28 the machine and start cutting files. Our old Shopbot, we had to assemble, square the frame, square the gantry, yada yada. I am not knocking them, but I have seen and used both quite extensively in 2.5, 3 and 4 axis machining. My choice is clear. CAMaster all the way.

There are many other threads devoted to this same issue and a search of the CNC forum will show them. This question comes up about once a week and to be honest, the ShopBot owners will tout their machines and the CAMaster owners will tout their machines. It is like asking a group of photographers which camera is better, Canon or Nikon. The end result is a photo in which the best photographer in the world can not tell you which camera was used to take the photo. The same holds true for CNC. I was able to run the same file on 3 different machines and you can not tell which machine cut the file. Many times I was cutting parts for one project on 3 different machines, when the project was assembled all the parts were within tolerance.

The programmer is more important then the machine.

Guy

[james mcgrew]

perry you are right up the road in ashville feel free to ride down to columbia, i have a stinger and an x3 in my shop, my good friend buddy will show you his shopbot as well

jim

[Perry Holbrook]

Guy, are you saying that for $5500 I can buy a machine that is built as well, supported as well, and can produce the same end result product as an $8000 machine?

I understand about brand loyality, but ignore it when all I want are un-biased facts.

Perry

[Guy Mathews]

Guy, are you saying that for $5500 I can buy a machine that is built as well, supported as well, and can produce the same end result product as an $8000 machine?

I understand about brand loyality, but ignore it when all I want are un-biased facts.

Perry

Perry,

What I am saying has been answered many times on this and other fourums. I searched some of my own postings for you.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...2&postcount=17

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...9&postcount=56

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...6&postcount=32

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showpost...0&postcount=13

These are just a sampling of some of my replies. In addition, if you would like to view the entire thread, in the upper right corner of the Pop up window the thread title is there for you to click and read the entire thread at your leisure.

You question bares merit and also is one that I will not answer by telling you, Yes.

What I will tell you is that since I have used machines from both companies and done some very sophisticated woodworking projects on both machines that when my decision to buy my own machine came up because I am leaving New Wave, CAMaster was my first and only choice. It is not because of price either. It is because these CAMasters are built like frigging tanks.

I know something of tanks as well having spent 6.5 years in the Army working on the M60A3 and then later the M1A1.

Anyhow, back to the CAMaster. Only you are going to know what is best for you. A CNC machine is not a replacement tool in my eyes for other tools. It is a tool that is to be used when needed for specific jobs. One of the biggest problems that I have had at New Wave is overcoming their mentality of "Let's use the CNC for this job." That may seem well and good, but writing a program for 4 tapered window legs for a chair is a waste of time when compared to a taper jig on a tablesaw and an overhead pin router with a self centering angle jig that was designed for the purpose of window legs. Just because you can do something, doesn't always mean you should. 100 legs is another story!

Should you spend $5,500 instead of $8,000? I can't answer that. Only you can.

Would I spend $8,000 verses $5,500? Heck no. I would buy the CAMaster for $5,500 and use the remaining $2,500 for Dust Collection and Vacuum hold down among other things. Lets not forget advanced software and a computer.

There is another thread floating around here at the Creek that compares 12 or so different machines. You can find it using the search feature at the top of the page or someone else may post it for you.

Good luck in your search and feel free to email me if you have any more questions.

Guy

[james mcgrew]

Guy, are you saying that for $5500 I can buy a machine that is built as well, supported as well, and can produce the same end result product as an $8000 machine?

I understand about brand loyality, but ignore it when all I want are un-biased facts.

Perry

that is a question i am comfortable with, having now owned 4 machines

the answer would be yes

jim

[Richard Link]

Perry,

I'll give you a neophyte's perspective from someone who is looking for their second CNC machine (upgrading from a Carvewright) and has done some shopping around and reading.

I think to some degree that you are comparing apples to oranges when you make that $5500 to $8000 comparison.

The stinger is a fixed table machine with a cutting area of 25 x 36". That means that the work stays fixed in place and the gantry holding the router moves in x, y and z. This leads to a fairly rigid workpiece and I would expect a fairly nimble machine as the only thing moving is the router and gantry. It also limits you to a fixed cutting size.

The buddy, whether you select the 32 or 48" width, has the router and gantry moving in x and z but the entire table moves in Y. This means that your workpiece is moving back and forth in Y. (similar in some ways to the way the Carvewright works). This has some advantages and some disadvantages. It allows you to work with much larger workpieces, particularly if you add Shopbot's Powerstick option. For example, I understand that the 48" Buddy can cut a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood (or even bigger). This is MUCH more cutting area that the Stinger, with its fixed table. On the other hand, the Buddy requires quite a bit of space to throw this large sheet of plywood around on both sides of the router. Moreover, because the table has to throw around this big sheet of plywood rather than just move a tiny router in y, there are potentially some intertia effects to contend with. It's also more difficult to provide workholding solutions (such as a vacuum system) when the workholding solution also has to move around on the moveable table.

I have a very small shop with a relatively small space to be allotted to my new CNC. The Stinger will fit into a much smaller fixed footprint but will limit me to a small fixed cutting area. The buddy would allow a much bigger workpiece but wouldn't work well within my space constraints. It really comes down to what you think you will do with the CNC. If you are pretty confident that you will be cutting items smaller than 25x36 then I would expect the fixed table and beefy hardware of the Stinger would be ideal. If you think you will be trying to cut out full sized cabinet parts and don't want a true 4 x 8 table CNC router, then a buddy would seem a better choice.

With respect to the quality and/or versatility of the two machines in practice, I'll have to defer to my more experienced colleagues.

[Michael Schwartz]

I own and operate a Shopbot PRS Standard with 48x96 cutting area. Having said that I am happy with my purchase. My machine with software, bits, digitizing probe, cost less less than 14k at the time delivered to my shop.

The PRS Shopbot's do require assembly. With that being said you gain a deep knowledge of your machine since you literally know every nut and bolt, and should you ever need to adjust the machine or make a repair/modification you will have the confidence and knowledge to do so.

As far as weight, they are still heavy machines. I believe mine weighs in excess of 1400 pounds with the spoil board.

I believe the buddy comes partially assembled.

If your on a budget and you have an opportunity to buy a used machine I would strongly suggest looking for a 48x96 PRT/Alpha shopbot since there have been a few on the market for under $10,000 used. All I can say is that they are not the newest machine out there, but people create top quality work with them, and represent a good value when bought used.

If I could point out any criticisms of the Shopbot platform, the aluminum side rails on the X axis don't help with vibration. However the trade off is for easy assembly, and the fact you could take your machine apart yourself and pack it up in the back of a Subaru, or a mini van etc... Some people have welded the frames of their machines.

The Gantry/Z axis with the PRS style shopbot's are much improved over PRT'S, however some have said the steel X rails on the PRT absorb more vibration. Regardless though for the right price a used PRT would be a good deal.

I am impressed by the cut quality from my machine, and it has exceeded my expectations. When cutting 3D the parts require little to no sanding depending on their use.

However regarding the smaller buddy's I think the stinger is the clear choice. I would consider the buddy is if your looking for a larger foot print. The buddy's are also available with full sized spindles, and shopbot's Alpha drive, which is something to consider as well.

However for 5500.00 the Stinger is an incredible deal. The buddy is worth considering though if you need a larger foot print and some of the other options offered with it.

People also have adapted their buddies for vacuum hold down, and do use them to produce quality work. They are good machines, and are certainly worth taking a look at.