Batteries changing to Lithium

[Jack Burgess]

Was warned by several clerks NOT to buy any current hand tools - including lawn mower that use Nicad batteries - everything is changing to Lithium - Is this happening now any comments

[John Coloccia]

I don't see NiCd going away anytime soon, although Lithium is the future. There are many different flavors of Lithium based batteries with advantages and disadvantages. On disadvantage is when Lithium Ion batteries are damaged, from physical damage or overheating (overcharging/discharging usually...think shorting it out), they tend to blow up and erupt into a chemical fire. It's generally dangerous to store them fully charged or fully discharged. There are electronics in the drill and charger that will prevent that from happening. Still, I've seen a Lithium Ion battery go, and I don't leave my packs charging unattended. At a minimum, put the charger on a concrete floor or something like that. The good news is they charge quickly. There have been some recent developments with Li-Ion technology, particular from a company called A123, that addresses some of the safety concerns.

They have a great advantage in energy/weight and energy/size. I can show you a pack just a little bigger than my thumb that has as much energy in it as a NiCd pack made with 6 C cells. Now that's impressive! They're also environmentally friendly.

This isn't meant to scare you. When used properly, Lithium Ion batteries are safe, but they don't completely replace NiCd yet and NiCd will be available for sometime to come. In fact, they're getting cheaper and the chemistry is still improving. I believe NiCd still support a much higher discharge rate than LiIon. The biggest drawback to NiCd is they're considered hazardous material, and they're much larger than an equivalent Lithium Ion battery. When cared for properly, though, they outlast Li-Ion...by quite a bit, actually. This should really not be a factor because NO ONE cares for their NiCd batteries properly except maybe a handful of people with proper equipment, knowledge and will. Even they wouldn't do this kind of maintenance on a cordless tool battery, though.

All that said, I probably wouldn't buy a NiCd powered tool if I had the choice simply because the Li Ion is smaller and lighter.

Hows that for a long winded answer to a simple question?

[Van Huskey]

Was warned by several clerks NOT to buy any current hand tools - including lawn mower that use Nicad batteries - everything is changing to Lithium - Is this happening now any comments

It has BEEN happening. BUT, on a lot of the old tools will use the new Lithium batteries, this tends to be the "full" size tools. I have several brands of 18V tools that can use either. If you catch the NiCad tools on closeout it can actually be cost effective to add the batteries as some point later.

[Jack Burgess]

Will the Nicad and Lith be interchangable - can't imagine manuf doing that to save us money

[Jack Burgess]

Thanks, appreciate you insight and knowledge

[Nathan Palenski]

Lithium ion and lithium polymer are great in devices with planned obsolescence, like a laptop or cellphone. In 10 years you probably wont want to use the same laptop you're using now due to advances in both hardware and software. Both give much superior energy density than NiCd or even NiMH. The only problem is the associated halflife with Li-ion. In the worst case its 10 months from manufacturer, in the best its 30. So at best in 5 years it'll hold ~1/4 the charge and thats from manufacture, not when you started using it. If it sits on a boat for 6 months and then on a shelf for 6 more you only get 4 years out of it before you're at the same place. Lithium polymer are better but not by much.

Not saying don't buy them, just be educated about them. Like anything else they're great for the right application and terrible for others.

[Curt Harms]

One of the problems with early NiCad batteries was self discharge. If I didn't use a NiCad drill purchased in the late '90s for a few weeks, the battery would be pretty well self discharged. I'd heard 1% discharge/day. I had two battery packs rebuilt by MTO battery with NiCad cells 3 years ago. The rebuilds were MUCH better about not self discharging. This past Christmas I bought a Bosch kit at Lowes for $199 18 v. drill & impact driver. I charged the batteries when I unpacked them and haven't charged them yet. Of course I haven't used them much either but point being they'll hold a charge very well. The 18 v. LiIon is lighter than the 14.4 v. NiCad as well.

[Paul Ryan]

If you check with the battery experts, those that specialize in rebuilding batteries. Most of them recommend a good NiMh over lithium. There reasons are lithium are not cost effective to rebuild, in many cases have a shorter life span than NiMh, and are not effected by temperature as much. The only advantage lithium has is lower weight.

[Lee Ludden]

The 18 Dewalt Litium's will be backwards compatible with the 18v NiCad. I am pretty sure that is not the case with Bosh and Milwaukee. I haven't verified it personally, but it was what was told to me by my local dealer when I saw a new kit on display.

[Glen Butler]

The advances in lithium technology in the last few years has been incredible, but other battery technologies are not going to disappear. There is no reason to hold out buying a product for something better unless that something better is right around the corner on the exact product you want to buy. Even then, would you want to be part of the first gen. consumer beta test? I bought a Hitachi cordless drill with new massive Nimh batteries. They died very quickly, but out of warranty. I am still using a much older Ridgid drill with NiCd batteries. Every battery technology has its advantages and disadvantages. Just get what you need if you need it and enjoy it.

[Ray Bell]

One of the problems with early NiCad batteries was self discharge. If I didn't use a NiCad drill purchased in the late '90s for a few weeks, the battery would be pretty well self discharged. I'd heard 1% discharge/day. I had two battery packs rebuilt by MTO battery with NiCad cells 3 years ago. The rebuilds were MUCH better about not self discharging. This past Christmas I bought a Bosch kit at Lowes for $199 18 v. drill & impact driver. I charged the batteries when I unpacked them and haven't charged them yet. Of course I haven't used them much either but point being they'll hold a charge very well. The 18 v. LiIon is lighter than the 14.4 v. NiCad as well.

Curt,
Is having the batteries rebuilt cost effective? Is the cost much different than buying new batteries?

[jason lambert]

More tools are going to lithium ion. Buy the tool and the battery will follow the Dewalt stuff is nice because you can eithor use the lithum or nicad and the same charger and they even make small and large batts that all work interchangeable. Depending on the job and tool I will grap a compaq or xr pack.

Anyhow not everyting is changing and you didn't mention what tool you where looking for. I do like the lithum mainly because of no memory and weight. But I would also buy a nicad tool if it was a good tool I think the technology is more robust. Also Lithum ion is about twice as expensive so it all depends on funding as well.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Curt,
Is having the batteries rebuilt cost effective? Is the cost much different than buying new batteries?

I have had numerous batteries rebuilt. It is not clear to me that it was significantly cheaper than purchasing a new battery pack (similar cost). I have done this, however, because I have had good results, and, for some items, it was not possible to replace the battery pack. I have an old cordless drill with the batteries built into the handle (no pack). There is no official replacement path. I like the device for its size and features. Have not found anything similar in the same size and features.

I have also rebuilt battery packs that I could purchase new, but, this allowed me to be a bit more environmentally friendly (rather than simply pitching the entire assembly), and, I have had very good luck with the replacement batteries used by batteries plus (the people that I use).

I have had great advantage using them to replace batteries in things such as my back-up batteries used for my computers. Just bring the entire pack with you. Sometimes they need to connect certain pieces together for you.

[joe milana]

My neighbor the electronic engineer really pushes NiMH technology. I have been borrowing his Panasonic 12v impact driver with a 7 year old battery to drive 3" deck screws and I must say, this thing refuses to quit.

I have a 2.5 year old Milwaukee 18v Li-ion compact drill that still works, but the batteries are just about shot. I paid $200 for the drill and new batteries are about $130. Is it worth it? I'll probably end up with a new drill.

Moral of the story: Choose a battery operated tool, enjoy it for a couple years, and expect to replace it....OR maybe take a serious look at the Panasonic NiMH tools. They are supposedly a leader in battery technology.

[Nathan Palenski]

I have also rebuilt battery packs that I could purchase new, but, this allowed me to be a bit more environmentally friendly (rather than simply pitching the entire assembly), and, I have had very good luck with the replacement batteries used by batteries plus (the people that I use).

Batteries plus uses japanese cells branded Nuon if I remember right. They're some of the better replacement cells out there.