Please help! Several Questions! Quick learning curve required!

[Rick Markham]

Hey y'all, once again I call on your collective knowledge, and I appreciate any and all help that you can give me.

Let me give you a quick run down of the scenario... I have an older friend, whom has just lost his wife of 25 years to cancer. He barely has a "pot to pee in" and a good organization, that we both belong to, is taking up donations for her cremation. I gave monetarily, of course, but I feel that I can do more and make an Urn for her. She was an influential person in my life and so is he, and I would like to try to attempt this. (Note, they are not counting on this, so if I can not do a "perfect" job they are not depending on this. However, I really feel with Y'alls help I can get this done.)

My first question: (I wish I could use sketch up, I've been meaning to learn) If I want to build a tall vessel (say 12" or 14" tall), using mitered joints. If I want it to taper gradually from top to the bottom (4 sided) how do I determine the compound angles for the miter joints? Does anyone have a good starting point for angles for a visual appealing, well balanced shape?

My second question: I have never had to cut tapers on my tablesaw, I need a quick and easy jig to build, it doesn't need to be pretty/ heck it doesn't even need to be adjustable. It just needs to be exceptionally quick to assemble/ make, and accurate enough for this project. I figure If I am going to be able to do this, I need to have the container built and ready to start finishing sometime tonight. (the more I think about this I might not have time, but if It is possible I really really want to do this for him)

Thank you very much for all your help!

[Quinn McCarthy]

THere is a website that has a table of compound angles but I cannot remember what it is. It has been brought up here a few time so you might want to google it.

Quinn

[Rick Markham]

Found it thanks Quinn!

[mike holden]

Rick,
You did not ask this, but my parents were returned to me in 3 X 6 X 10 inch boxes, so, you need to account for at least 180 cubic inches of volume in your urn.
Hope it all works out for you,
Mike

[Rick Markham]

Thanks Mike, that is another aspect of this that I was wondering about, but had forgotten to ask. This is why I come to tap the collective here!

[Aaron Wingert]

I recently read a post by a guy that turns pet urns in a thread on another website that cremated remains come back at a ratio of one cup of remains per 10 pounds of weight (pre-cremation).

The guy also uses threaded PVC pipe caps concealed in the vessel and the lid so there is a reasonably airtight connection and so the lid won't just pop off.

As for cutting the staves, I'm not much help. But I'm sure if you cut a tapered jig to go against your fence that would be half the battle.

[Jose Morales-Wade]

I build one for my grand mother. It didn't have tapers, but used two different contrasting woods (no pictures, sorry). The bottom normally gets screw in, so you can rest the ashes (in a bag) on it, and the screw the rest in..

[Rick Markham]

I think due to time this might be a fruitless endeavor. It was a good thought, and I am interested in learning all of this, it's important to me.

I just think that there are too many variables for this project that are unknown. Nothing that isn't solvable but under the time constraints and the fact that I am not directly "in the loop" so to speak, lead me to believe that I might be a day late and a dollar short. I wouldn't want to provide something too small, or not perfect in my eyes, and I certainly don't know all the rules here in Florida as far as what is considered a "suitable container" by law. (All these are reasons that I kept this idea to myself I think I might make something in her memory instead. It gives me more flexibility, time and doesn't involve a loved ones remains.

Don't get me wrong I still would like to figure these questions out. One thing about the taper jig, when you use one, after you cut one side with it, and you flip the piece of wood to rip the other side at the same angle, do you have to replace "the cutoff" to maintain the proper angle?

[Kent Parker]

Rick,

I have made more than my share of urns for close friends and all have allowed for the time it takes to make them. They become rather personel and the symbolic element of containers dictates that patience and care be taken into consideration during their construction. People tend to understand that the urn will be a resting place of sorts and visually, for them, will have a great bearing on their memories. Whatever you do, don't hurry, take your time.

I have always felt honored to be asked to make one. A difficult task if you are close to them as their memory tends to bump into the design process.

Offer to make the urn. I would think the personal nature of the request would be appreciated. It would give you a chance to develope your skills and share your compassion to someone in need.

The amount of ashes is dictated by the size of the person and it is very important that the box be just slightly bigger than the box the ashes come in. Common size is 8" x 6" x 4". You could get dimensions from the crematorium or offer to pick them up and deliver them in your box. That way you would have them in your shop and know just how much space you need.

I've always chosen horizontal shapes for urns.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=104184

This one was for someone that thought ahead so while not in use as an urn, I made a removable tray for it.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=132176

An urn can be just a box or it can be so much more if you take the time to acknowledge the feelings of those that will view it.

Cheers,

Kent

[David Helm]

You don't have to have it finished immediately. Often cremated remains stay in the box they came in till a proper receptacle is obtained. I would surely do the container if I were you. A number of years ago, a person of importance to me died. His family asked me to make a coffin (never done anything like this before). The experience was amazing and gave me a fine sense of closure.

[Rick Markham]

I think you guys have convinced me, I am in the very least going to attempt to make it. I really like the horizontal idea. Kent you do amazing work! Lien's urn reminds me of a piece I have been working on in memory for another dear friend who lost his wife earlier this year. (It's wenge with a bookmatched piece of bloodwood as the center panel for the top)

If I do it as a horizontal box (a style I am more familiar with) that will make the logistics of the process substantially easier for me. I can learn the tapered idea in the future on another project and stick with what I know now.

I am not sure what my friend is planning on doing with her remains at this point, I'm not even sure he knows. He is having an exceptionally hard time with everything at this point (as I would expect) So I feel asking details at this point is more than he can bear. I will be getting in touch with the woman who is taking care of the donations for the expense of this process to see if she knows more details. Again, I don't want to "get in over my head" and disappoint the process. I would much rather know how much time I have, create a suitable container and give it to my friend to do with as he wishes. Once again thanks for enlightening me on all of this, Y'all are truly the best!

[Aaron Wingert]

Another thing to think about is that some families choose to bury the urn containing the ashes in a small concrete vault, just like a casket is buried. Therefore, the urn is similar to a casket...And they make some mighty fancy caskets. A fancy urn could serve that duty if the family chooses that route or opts to display the urn containing the ashes.

My family was in the position of not knowing what to do with my mom's ashes when we lost her to breast cancer at 46. Before her death I asked her what she wanted done with her ashes, and she said that we should mix her up with some concrete and make her into a speed bump at the grocery store, where people drive too fast in the parking lot.

I tell that story for a couple reasons...
1) It is funny
2) Families are often conflicted on what to do with their loved one's remains, and the decision can take a while if they didn't receive any direction from the deceased. Some people take years to make that decision. Your urn will simply give them an option and will be a treasured gift no matter how it is utilized...Although it may be best to present the urn to them for their use if they so choose, but with no obligation.

Heck of a nice thing you're doing.

[Rick Markham]

Aaron I think that is what I want to do, Is just give it to him with the understanding he does what he wants with it. He can keep it and put some of her things in it to remember her by, he can use it as an urn, bury it, keep it, spread her ashes, etc. The last thing I want to do is obligate him in anyway, it's more of a loving gesture than anything, and hopefully something that means more to him than something that would be bought for that purpose. I am thankful to have a place like sawmill creek to bounce these ideas around!

[Aaron Wingert]

...and hopefully something that means more to him than something that would be bought for that purpose.

Darn right it will Rick. When you've got talent building things, there is occasionally a time to step up and build something special, like you're doing, and he'll appreciate the gesture.