The Scraper: A Cheater's Tool?

[Joshua Dinerstein]

(Yes, Joshua, I'm working on the video.)

Hahahaha. I just read this and I started laughing out loud. Luckily thanks to a round of layoffs and other leaving here at work I am alone in this row of 8 cubes. So I think I got away with it and no one thinks I am crazy.

I just hope I haven't become too big a pest Paul!

Oh and I just had to comment on David's post here in this thread. I thought that this comment:

"I'd turn with a hammer and a circular saw if it would cut down on the sanding at the end of a piece."

was both pretty darn accurate and amazingly funny. I hadn't realized how far I had come in sanding until recently when I was cleaning up my storage area and looked at some of my early bowls. I had tried to sand out 1/8" - 1/4" deep picked out grain on the end of the bowl. In some cases after hours of sanding I had passable results. Now I am getting away 99% of the time with about a minute of sanding per piece. Pretty darn awesome when things start working for you instead of against.

But then while feeling pleased with myself I got the chance to hit the Utah Woodturners Symposium this year for the first time. Watching the true pro's do what they do showed me that while I am making progress I have about 29 years worth of practice to go.

Joshua

[David DeCristoforo]

Some of the replies to this have given me a good chuckle. But I end up thinking that this is like the age old argument about whether or not using power tools is "cheating" as opposed to doing everything "by hand". My answer to that has always been "Go out into the woods with nothing but your hands. Find a tree. Make something out of it. No, you can't use that rock. That would be cheating." What a ludicrous idea. There is no such thing as "cheating". You use what works for you. I've seen people do amazing things with a bowl gouge. But I've also seen some awesome pieces that were never touched with one. It makes absolutely no difference. If it works for you... do it. Cut it... scrape it... grind it... beat it out with a sledge hammer. Who cares? If someone wants to enjoy mastery of a particular tool or technique, fine. The process is paramount to many. But just as many are driven by the need to manifest the vision of the object and are unconcerned with the details of how that is accomplished.

[John Hart]

Holy Cow David!!

"The process is paramount to many.
But, just as many are driven by the need to manifest the vision of the object and are unconcerned with the details of how that is accomplished."

That belongs on the back cover of a book!!!

Sorry...I just like cool sentences.

[Ernie Nyvall]

I don't think anyone should ever stoop to using a scraper, so if you will all send me what you have, I'll discard them properly.

Back to your first sentence Greg, though I haven't seen the videos you are referring to, it seems the pros are just trying to show a way to do something that may take a step out of your turning for a particular kind of cut. For myself I can make a more finished cut with my bowl gouge on the outside of a form than with my scraper. I just keep bruising the wood with the scraper on the outside, and it takes heavier sandpaper. With the bowl gouge I can start sanding with paper as high as 50 grit.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ernie,

You did mean "at least 50 grit" didn't you?

[Tim Rinehart]

Some of the replies to this have given me a good chuckle. But I end up thinking that this is like the age old argument about whether or not using power tools is "cheating" as opposed to doing everything "by hand". My answer to that has always been "Go out into the woods with nothing but your hands. Find a tree. Make something out of it. No, you can't use that rock. That would be cheating." What a ludicrous idea. There is no such thing as "cheating". You use what works for you. I've seen people do amazing things with a bowl gouge. But I've also seen some awesome pieces that were never touched with one. It makes absolutely no difference. If it works for you... do it. Cut it... scrape it... grind it... beat it out with a sledge hammer. Who cares? If someone wants to enjoy mastery of a particular tool or technique, fine. The process is paramount to many. But just as many are driven by the need to manifest the vision of the object and are unconcerned with the details of how that is accomplished.

Translated from Latin..."It is the results, not the process" !!

I love online translation tools. But regardless, David so eloquently put it how we've all been saying. Do what works.... er, correction...
" operor quis officina "

[Scott Hackler]

I have and more importantly USE several different scrapers. One of my favorites is a Sorby giant bowl scraper. I have nicknamed this dude as the butterknife. It works great for easing and smoothing the inside curves, but its so darn big that when you have a "boo boo" its a real nasty one. I even use my skew it used as a scraper, A LOT! . Having said that, I dont use them nearly as much as I used to, but inside some forms it is almost impossible to get a clean cut with a gouge because of the angle required. (ps I will sometimes turn the bowl gouge upside down and use it as a small scraper!)

Heck almost every hollowing tool is essentially a very small scraper.

I say use what works for you, but dont forget that you may have a tool in your collection that works even better... .if you just knew how to use it at the master level. We are all in a constant state of learning.

[Neil Strong]

Worth mentioning that there was a time that some of us can remember (I guess that puts me into your 'old timer' bucket) before we had what we now refer to as a bowl gouge when scrapers ruled supreme on faceplate work.

I just love all the great bowl gouges that we now have, but reckon good scraper technique is just as challenging to master as good bowl gouge technique. So I just ignore the scraper phobia of some gouge snobs.

No doubt some turners have such good gouge technique that they minimise or eliminate the need for scraping, but few have such good scraper technique that they completely eliminate the need for abrasives...

.....

[Bryan Morgan]

As a newbie I have been struck by how often comments are made in DVDs by the pros that using a particular gouge or skew technique eliminates the need for using a scraper. One definitely gets the impression that the scraper is a tool with a stigma attached to it. Is this because the pros have to work fast and efficiently and eliminating an additional tool is advantageous? Or is there a bigger thing going on here? Like "anyone can use a scraper but only people with developed technique can get a finish-quality cut with a gouge or a skew." This latter may well be true because I certainly have found a scraper can tidy up a lot of my poor technique. But that doesn't stop me from wanting to use all the tools to their full potential...and practicing to get there. Hope I'm not starting a war of a debate (actually that would be fun to read) but I'd love to hear opinions from the old hands about the status of the scraper.

If the final product is great and makes you happy, what difference does it make what tool was used to get there?

[Curt Fuller]

So, if the scraper can be considered a cheater's tool, does that make the myriad of carbide cutter tools that are flooding the turning market the ultimate cheater's tool. After all, they promote the ease of turning without the complications of learning to ride the bevel, etc. AND you don't even need to learn to sharpen them. Rotate the cutter until it's dull all around, throw it a way and put a new one on. I could free up quite a bit of workbench space by getting rid of my grinder, let alone the time it free's up by not sharpening.

I don't really think any tool can be considered cheating. But I also think that regardless of what innovative tools come along, there will always be a need for the good old gouges and skews and the skills necessary to use them.

[Reed Gray]

I didn't know there were so many scraper users. I am not alone any more.

robo hippy

[Hilel Salomon]

I consider anything more than a foot pedal driven lathe is a cheater's tool. Scrapers, gouges and skews are not for real men or real women for that matter !!! I know that when it's about 100 degrees outside, any motor driven tool such as a chainsaw, mower or weedwacker is only for sissies. Inside the house, real men and women don't use air conditioners but rather hand fans.

Now you all excuse me but my wife was cooking a father's day meal -over an open fire of course- and the kitchen drapes are ablaze.

Now in all honesty some of my friends consider sarcasm and facetiousness a cheater's verbal tool

Happy Father's Day ,

Hilel.

[Allen Neighbors]

I consider anything more than a foot pedal driven lathe is a cheater's tool. Scrapers, gouges and skews are not for real men or real women for that matter !!! I know that when it's about 100 degrees outside, any motor driven tool such as a chainsaw, mower or weedwacker is only for sissies. Inside the house, real men and women don't use air conditioners but rather hand fans.

Now you all excuse me but my wife was cooking a father's day meal -over an open fire of course- and the kitchen drapes are ablaze.

Now in all honesty some of my friends consider sarcasm and facetiousness a cheater's verbal tool

Happy Father's Day ,

Hilel.

Mr. Salomon, you're a nut.

[Ralph Lindberg]

I consider anything more than a foot pedal driven lathe is a cheater's tool. ....

Got one

[John Hart]

Got one

Cheater....you used metal screws and wingnuts.