Electrical ? - Is this feasible: 220 to the garage

[Navin Rao]

Hi folks,

Before I pay for a visit from an electrician to tell me this is impossible, I was hoping I could get some input as to whether this is feasible based upon the information I can provide. Please excuse the improper use of electrical terms.

I have half of a two car garage for my "shop" - the wife seems to think at least one car needs to be in the garage. We live in a townhouse, with our main electrical panel on the top floor (its pretty full). The line comes in from the attic and down to the panel on the top floor. I assume all three townhouse units are sharing the main line from the pole. We are the last unit of three from a master junction box for all three units (I guess that makes our main panel a subpanel?).

Our garage has a GFCI (110 15 A) and dryer outlet (110 20A). The range is gas, so no 220 there. The only 220 is outside on the front porch for the A/C we rarely use (maybe a week of use during the summer). Would it be feasible to run a 220 line from the outside electrical box the AC plugs into along the outside of the townhouse (about 25-30 feet) and then into the garage? Could that be turned into a subpanel? I would never anticipate using both the AC and a tool downstairs. I'd be very happy with two 220 outlets in the garage, but would settle for one.

Thanks so much for any input.

[Dave Gaul]

Generally in Townhouse & apartments contruction, the line comes off the pole and feeds to a "gang" of meters, then the lines leaves the meter base to the invidual main panels... so your panel is not really a sub panel.

Are you sure the dryer outlet is 110V? Not very common these days...

Some experts will have to and probably will chime in, but I do not believe you can run a subpanel off an outlet... I am pretty sure the subpanel must come off a breaker in the main panel.

I'm sure there is a way for an electrician to get you 220V in there, if the price it right!

[Von Bickley]

Are you sure the dryer outlet is 110V? Not very common these days...

I'm sure there is a way for an electrician to get you 220V in there, if the price it right!

I agree with Dave. I have never seen a dryer outlet that is 110V.

[Dave Gaul]

I agree with Dave. I have never seen a dryer outlet that is 110V.

I've seen a 110V dryer, very old, but no actuall 110V designated dryer outlet... if it is a dedicated appliance outlet, generally going to be 220V, so Navin you may be in more luck than you think!

[Dave MacArthur]

You need to run the sub panel off a breaker from your main.
I've never seen a 110 v dryer, you should re-check that.

When running new wire/receptacles, it's critical to know what size wire you have and it's length, already in place, if you're trying to tap off of it for any reason.
Some thoughts: 1. running an external wire requires a particular wire-type, UF if buried directly, and to be run in conduit otherwise with various rules. Running wire any distance in conduit can limit the amps you flow on it, need to check the NEC.
2. Any plugs in a garage at grade level or below must be protected on a GFCI circuit. There are two exceptions which can apply, 220 v. single-plug dedicated receptacles, not easily accessible. Tapping off some other circuit like your airco to supply a garage with a single-plug for all use would I'm sure NOT comply with this requirement.
3. In a townhouse setting like this, I would wonder if it is legal to do your own work as the "owner" in any case. My advice would be to hire an electrician and make sure you are 100% to code with a permit. What you're describing sounds like a setup for running too much power over a circuit not designed for it with compromises made... a setup for problems.

Definitely doable with an electrician though.

Good luck.

[Navin Rao]

Our washer dryer is one of those small, dinky top/bottom combo systems. The actual dryer is a gas dryer, so the draw is pretty minimal on the unit. I routinely unplug the washer/dryer unit and run my lunchbox planer on it since it is a 20A 110 outlet. I've checked the breaker box upstairs and it is 110.

I was hoping for a an easier/cheaper attempt rather than running a 220 from the breaker box on the top floor down to the garage which is at a basement level (three level townhouse), as longer as that easier option was safe.

[David Helm]

He said the dryer is heated by gas. The only electric part is the 120 volt motor. 240 not necessary for a gas dryer.

[Dave Gaul]

Our washer dryer is one of those small, dinky top/bottom combo systems. The actual dryer is a gas dryer, so the draw is pretty minimal on the unit. I routinely unplug the washer/dryer unit and run my lunchbox planer on it since it is a 20A 110 outlet. I've checked the breaker box upstairs and it is 110.

I was hoping for a an easier/cheaper attempt rather than running a 220 from the breaker box on the top floor down to the garage which is at a basement level (three level townhouse), as longer as that easier option was safe.

ahhh that makes a little more sense now! 110V dryers do exist, very rare but they are out there... my last (AND I MEAN LAST!!!) apartment had one.

I think Dave MacArthur nailed the solution though, I wondered myself about the Townhouse setup, wether you can do it yourself or not, best to get an electrician's opinion & estimate... Not only will you get a cost estimate, but you can have him tell & show you what he/she will do...

[Dan Friedrichs]

Would it be feasible to run a 220 line from the outside electrical box the AC plugs into along the outside of the townhouse (about 25-30 feet) and then into the garage? Could that be turned into a subpanel?

I don't think you can run a subpanel off of that, but there is likely no reason you can't extend the run from that AC outlet box to add 1 or 2 additional outlets in the garage. Caveats:

1) The wire leading to the AC outlet should already be properly sized for the breaker feeding it, but I would confirm that, just to be safe.

2) You can't use a plug to tap the AC outlet - you'll need to run a conduit to that box.

3) The outlets you add in the garage MAY need to be GFCI outlets (slightly more expensive). Check the breaker, though - perhaps you're lucky and it's already a GCFI breaker.


Other than that, it should work fine. Again, I wouldn't install a subpanel that way, but if you just want 2 extra outlets, and tapping off that box is much more convenient than any other way, you should be able to do it (there is no technical reason that it would be unsafe).

I'm not a NEC expert, but the only thing that may give you trouble is that the AC outlet may be considered a "dedicated circuit", making this a procedural no-no. Maybe one of the code experts will chime in and tell us.

[Dave MacArthur]

Actually, the washer circuit is usually a dedicated circuit also, supposed to be. And 20 A, that means you probably have NM 12-2 wire in there, but if you're lucky 12-3.

If you had to, you could actually convert that washer circuit to 220V easily, just use the hot and the white neutral for the two hot lines. You need to identify the white neutral as a hot line by taping it with black at the panel and at the plug (technique I believe, but good). Just replace the 110v CB in the main panel with a 220V, you may have to move the other CBs around a bit to align it with another open spot (220V CB take up two slots).

You wouldn't have a neutral, so you couldn't run 110V off it--unless the wire in that circuit is already 3 strand, in which case you're in luck. You could wire the washer to use one hot and the neutral on a new plug, then unplug it and use it for your tools.

One thing I got thinking of... If I was the guy in the adjoining house, I might be irked if I ever heard a noise in there after 7pm... got me thinking of the real world limitations to your plan. I know if I shared a structure with some guy that started doing his own electrical, and it wasn't 100% NEC code with permits, I'd be way irked at him for putting my family at risk, and I'd call the city inspectors ASAP. Something to think about for the other guy's perspectives before you get started

[Ed Boyland]

You can run a 220 line from your existent line to you basement. Just run 10/3 wires in a conduit pipe to the basement, into a 1900 box, which is a 4x4 box. Once there, you can continue and run another box to the tool or close to the tool you extent to use. And you ok. Just use 10/3 wire.