In put re new slider: Hammer C331 vs. MM CU Smart & Lengh of slider

[joe lasky]

I am looking at purchasing a new slider and have been negotiating with Hammer and Mini Max. Any thoughts on one manufacturer over the other, quality, ease of use, support, problems?

The C331 I am considering has a slider length of 6'6". The Mini Max can either be their 5' 5" or 8.5". All three would come with a mobility kit. I do have a space problem and if I got the 8'5" I would likely have to move the machine (forward and back) each time to get a full 8' cut.

The combo will be for home use with each project being a "one off" so I can't estimate how often I would need the 8' length. My next projects will be bookcases and furniture. I have the Festool system and can use it for longer rips but, it isn't as accurate as I would like. I have heard of some users of combos making a rip sled to extend the slider table for longer cuts. I have been unable to find posts on this subject. Does such a thing work? Is it practical?

I know I have a lot of questions but I suspect others have gone through the same issues. Any help would be appreciated.

[Mike Ruggeri]

Felder and Minimax are both good quality brands - my guess is you can't go wrong with either. I have a CU 300 Smart and really like it.

I would get the longest slider you can fit. I have the 8.5ft on mine and when I first got it I thought I would never use it and was thinking a shorter one would have been better. Guess what, I really like having the longer slider and I find it useful more often than I would have thought. I have my combo set us so I don't have to move it when I need the capacity of the slider - I do however have to move my bandsaw which I find easier to do than the combo (although I have Zambus casters on the combo and it moves very easily). Because of space limitations, my combo usually is positioned against the wall and I pull it out when I have to joint or plane. This set up works well as I saw more than I joint/plane and I only have to move the bandsaw if I need the upper end of the capacity.

One add on for the CU 300 that I absolutely love is an added on/off switch mounted to the slider. There is a whole article on the Minimax owners' site detailing how to do this although I don't find people talking about this too often. I find it very comforting to be able to make a cut with the work clamped to the slider, my hands far from the blade and my thumb on the off button in case I have to turn the saw off quickly. While I have this on my Minimax, I bet you could do something similar on a Felder.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Mike

[Ray Schwalb]

Ditto. Get the longest slider that will possibly fit. For many of the cuts you make, you'll only be running the slider through part of the motion anyway. I have a Felder with the 78" slider, but wish I would have gotten the longer one.

[Brian W Evans]

Joe,

I've been considering a slider recently as well and I can't get past the old rule of thumb that you should get as much capacity as you can afford/fit into your shop. It's tempting to think that, in order to save $$$, you should get the shorter slider and just make long plywood cuts using the circular saw. However, ripping a straight edge on a board is another good reason to get a slider and, for that, you'll want as much capacity as you can get.

The c331 comes in a "Perform" model that has an 8.5' (I think) slider, although it's quite a bit more that the other c331's.

Either way, please let us know what decision you make and why.

[Scot Ferraro]

Hammer does make t-shaped guides that you can screw to the bottom of plywood to make a longer sled - it is shown in their video and it seems to be an effective way of gaining capacity if you need something longer than your slider will allow. Just another thought when deciding. I do not own a slider, but I do have other Hammer equipment and it works very well and the sales/service support is top-notch. In fact a week ago I had questions on making an adjustment to my machine. Brian, one of the service techs, talked to me for 30 minutes walking through the process. He then called me back a week later to check in and to see if I had any other questions -- great follow-up and support.

Scot

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

Most people who buy one don't also purchase the other, so comparisons will generally be worth - - well - - what you paid.

I have the Hammer and wouldn't have anything else.
Get the longest table you can get, get the Dado, Get the Outrigger adjustable support table, get the Shaper option.

[Joe Jensen]

I recently upgraded to a Felder KF700SP saw/shaper combo after 30 years of using cabinet saws. I did a ton of reading on the internet before calling Felder and SCMI/Minimax. I was pleasantly surprised by the helpfullness of both firms. In my research I found a couple of consistent themes.
1) If ordering new, don't skimp on options. Buy all they you want because it's cost prohibative or impossible to add them later. Many folks said they skimped on options and then they ended up selling the first machine at a big loss and ordering another one configured the way they wanted. #1 reason was the slider was too short.
2) Slide length is the hardest decision. Slider saws take a lot of room. Mine has a 9ft slider which allows me to have the fence on one end and cut a perfect edge on the 8ft side of a sheet of plywood. Also, many hobby owners evolve to using the slide for almost all cuts. The perfect edge off a slider is very addictive. Many of those who upgraded to a longer slider cited ripping hardwood as the main reason for getting a longer one. The saw I bought had 2600mm, 2800mm and 3000mm options. Some larger saws go as long as 3200mm. The 2800mm (9ft) and one reason is that you can run it front to back in most garages. I don't have mine set that way, but if I bought longer that would not be an option.

I saw a Felder 700 series on ebay that looked like it could be a deal as the seller had some very tough restrictions and didn't know what they were selling. In the end I was too gready and I lost the bid but that pushed me over the fence and firmly into the "I'm buying one" camp. I searched the used sites and found a really nice Felder KF700SP that was almost perfect for me at a really good price. When the site contacted the owner he changed his mind and didn't sell. I watched for a few more weeks and the Felder sales guy turned me on to a couple of used machine leads but one had too short of a slider and one was sold already. About a month into my search the Felder sales guy called and said they were having a big end of year sale that he could do a new one for about a grand more than a used one. I ended up ordering one and over a couple week period I added a ton of upgrades to it.

I'd say start by looking for a good used one. If you had the space, there are tons of really good saw only machines out there with 9ft or 10ft sliders. There have been quite a few since I ordered mine in Oct 09, and a few that made me regret ordering new. You can go pretty crazy on options, and I did. But, I don't regret it at all. Every time I go into the garage I smile, and every time I use it I have a huge grin.

[C Scott McDonald]

You should really try to get your hands on a slider before making such a big and expensive decision.

A fellow creeker let me try his 9' Felder slider and man is it nice. But it's really too big, in my opinion, for hobby work. Again that's my opinion and I am sure others will differ and that's cool.

I ended up buying a Hammer with a 31" Slider and absoluetly love it. It is the best of the both worlds. I can rip like a regular cabinet saw and have the precision of the slider for crosscutting. I would buy it again in a second.

In the interest of full disclosure I rarely cut up plywood and use a track saw to break down pieces when I do. Also my shop is about 18' x 18' so a 9 footer isnt going to fit anyway.

As far as Hammer and Minimax I dont think you could go wrong either way. I ended up with the Hammer as I started looking at Felder and ended up with Hammer as the price point was in my price range.

Again you really need to decide what kind of work you will do and get out and track down some sliders to play with. Isnt the big woodworking show in Atlanta coming up soon? Might be worth a trip. I went to the vegas show last year and it is worth the effort.

Good luck on your purchase!

Scott

[joe lasky]

Thanks to all of you who took the time to answer my request. I am inclined toward the 8' slider after considering all of your in put.

Thanks again.

Joe

[Joe Jensen]

Thanks to all of you who took the time to answer my request. I am inclined toward the 8' slider after considering all of your in put.

Thanks again.

Joe

Joe, keep in mind that with an 8 ft slide you will not have any room to clamp an 8 ft sheet to the slide for cutting. If you want to cut 8 ft, you need a 9ft slider as far as I have been told and as far as I can tell.

[Greg Portland]

I do have a space problem and if I got the 8'5" I would likely have to move the machine (forward and back) each time to get a full 8' cut.

So you're saying that you'd cut 1/2 way, move the saw, and then complete the cut? I'm assuming that you're already planning to put the saw at an angle in the shop to get more capacity. If so, I can't how you're going to constantly move the extremely heavy machine back and forth while maintaining accuracy with the 1/2 complete cut.

A double door is relatively cheap compared to this saw. Knock a hole in the side of your shop and open the doors for the extra room when making those 8'+ cuts.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Joe, I have the B3 with the 49" table as my shop is short of space.

I would take a hard look at what you plan to build and then decide what to buy.

For example let's say I want to build a bookcase that is 32" X 94".

Let's use my small slider to build it.

1) straight line rip the sides.....My machine only straight lines about 44" however with the Hammer "T" strips and a plywood sled I can straight line rip the 94" sides using the slider and the sled.

2) rip sides to width, well any tablesaw will do that by using the rip fence.

3) Straight line rip plywood back, same as #1

4) Crosscut plywood back, no problem the 49" table model will crosscut the back of the cabinet using the slider.

So if you want to straight line rip without using a sled, you need a slider that's longer than your workpiece.

If you're happy with using the sled in conjunction with the sliding table, you can use a smaller slider as long as you have enough crosscut capacity for your projects.

Since I don't ever crosscut full sheets of ply, the 49" sliding table crosscut capacity of about 42" is fine for me.

I find that most bookcases etc. that I make are in the 30 to 36" wide size.

Regards, Rod.

P.S. The use of the sled to straight line rip material longer than the slider is shown in this video.

http://www.hammerusa.com/us-us/video...ammer-saw.html

[Tom Rick]

Thanks for the link to the video- I'm sold.

Does anyone know if the MM machines have a similar capacity to use a auxiliary sliding table to augment table length?
Also- a question I have been pondering:

Say you have slab of lumber and you want to make something like paint sticks or venetian blinds- that is lots of small sticks of same size. Are you holding the stock free hand against the stop as in video and indexing against fence for each cut?
For some reason I had thought of sliding table saw operations as always having the stock clamped to table for sawing... so clamp, cut, unclamp- move over, clamp, cut, unclamp- move over....etc.

Thanks all

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tom, if you're going to make thin strips then you use the rip fence, in the low position so it's only about 12mm high, you can even put it in the short position so it ends at the saw arbour. This gives you a longer infeed fence for better accuracy and reduces the risk of kickback when cutting solid material.

Just push the material through as you would with a cabinet saw.

Regards, Rod.

[Paul Canaris]

Get the longest slider that your shop will fit comfortably. Also take into account the width of the unit with the outrigger table and miter fence attached. Given a very large shop with adequate space I would go for big as the extra capacity will be useful. If the unit you are looking at barely fits your shop you may end up regretting it frequently.