Help Clarify My Chisel Confusion Please

[Matthew Bobek]

So, still being new to hand tools, as I would like to incorporate them into the work I do, I have become lost in an internet full of contradicting opinions and I am hoping for some honest clarification here.

I am on a limited budget, as almost everyone is these days, so spending a whole lot of money is really not an option. I would like to learn to use chisels and my main goal right now is to learn to cut dovetails and thus use the chisels to clean them up (in addition to a good block plane of course).

I've read countless reviews and threads on how the "new" blue chip chisels are not what they used to be, the narex, irwin, two cherries, etc are all decent "user" chisels, whatever that means. And, it seems that the LN chisels would be the best option, except for the high price tag.

In Tom Fidgen's book, he suggests buying 1/4" and 1/2" chisels to start with. If only buying a couple I would consider the LN. Would these be good sizes for dovetails and other general uses? Also, I am new to the world of sharpening and have purchased a honing guide and adhesive backed paper from tools for working wood, to start to learn the process of honing, etc.

So, what it boils down to is: should I get a set of ok chisels, or make a good investment in a few select chisels to start out with? I do not want to waste my money, and if that means buying one LN for the price of 6 from another company, I'm okay with that, and would be happy supporting a truly American company. Also, I understand there are a lot of good vintage chisels out there, but I am not interested in this time at re-grinding and flattening. I would like something I can use and begin learning with more or less out of the box.

Thanks in advance as always.

[Bill Houghton]

I don't have any experience with the mid-line chisels you mentioned, so can't offer much advice there. Generally, "user" chisel means that, if you're not working on exotics, it'll do a good job, but if you're aiming for invisible joints and so on, it may be a little lacking. Kind of like, to use a music metaphor, buying a good midline guitar to play versus spending $10,000 on a guitar when you get to rock god status in the music world.

Having said that, a lot of the midline tools of any kind require more fossicking about with to get them right. While there are a certain number of tools the prices of which are based on, um, hype, getting a chisel on which you don't have to spend time flattening the back will definitely move you forward faster.

I use my 1/2" chisel more than any other, with 1/4" coming in second, so these are probably good to start with. You'll want a wider one for planing-type paring; I've got some up to 2" wide that I would definitely pack in the toolbag if I was headed for the desert island, but they spend a lot of time waiting for the moment when I need them.

If you can afford it, I doubt you'll regret ponying up for good chisels; if you can't, expect to spend some time with tuning.

[Harlan Barnhart]

I would recommend spending more per chisel and buying fewer over buying a cheaper set. I use a 3/4" the most. I could get by with a 1/4" 3/4" and 1 1/2" for a lot of things.

[Jonathan McCullough]

I've been doing a lot of dovetails lately--mostly practice--and coming from my experience I can give you a recommendation.

The chisels I had were yellow-plastic handled Stanleys I'd gotten a long time ago. I've got to say that the steel really is pretty good. But they were somewhat long and top-heavy. When you're (or really, I'm) doing dovetails, I hold the chisel upright between thumb and forefinger, and tap with a mallet from the top. When the chisels are long and top-heavy, they just got to be too unwieldy, and my thumbs got tired trying to hold them in place. The other thing was that although they were beveled chisels, the bevel didn't extend all the way to the back of the chisel; in cross-section, they were really more square shaped, so I couldn't really get down into the corners of tails.

I got the Ashley Iles dovetail chisels from Tools for Working Wood, and they're really very nice, though a bit too long for my tastes. The 1/4-inch chisel is also too thin I think; they're more like paring dovetail chisels. Excellent steel though, and the backs honed very quickly.

Then I got the Ashley Iles butt chisels from The Best Things. The taper comes right down to the back of the chisel so you can get right down into the corners of tails. They're shorter and feel nice in the hand. They're relatively less expensive too, and the steel is really nice. That would be my recommendation if you're mostly going to do dovetails. I was doing some practice dovetails the other day with them and whistling while I worked.

The Lie Nielsens are well regarded, the bevel comes right down to the back of the chisel for effective dovetailing, and you could certainly sell them at near-cost if you needed to. Stanley is also going to come out with a modern redo of their vaunted socket-handled 750 chisel line this fall, which is what the Lie Nielsens are based on. I'd be willing to give them a spin.

But if you're looking for a quality, moderately priced, dovetail-dedicated chisel, the AI butt chisels are what I'd recommend.

[Archie England]

Greetings, and beware...opinions multiple around these parts.

I'm a hobby sort of woodworker, with a foot firmly planted in all things turning, with the other in all things flat work. Plus, I'm much more oriented toward neander but, alas, not totally weened from those tailed tools. This means I have absolutely no merit by which to persuade anyone else how to do anything. Okay, now that that's out of the way...

I've gathered (amassed, sought out, plucked up, etc. BUT NEVER COLLECTED) chisels for all sorts of galoot woodworking. Truth, from my end of the bench--I use the smaller chisels considerably more often--especially in handcut dovetails. When getting into smaller pins, YOU REALLY need a 1/8 chisel. Haven't bought the fishtail version yet, but that's not far off. In my larger sizes (despite that I have plenty), I just don't need most increments over 1". Occasionally, yes; and it's good to have it, too. Remember, never wait to need a tool before buying it!! Hehe.

All said, I recommend 1/8 through 3/4, plus 1" and maybe 1 1/2 or so.

And, since one does definitely get what one pays for...Buy right--buy once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! OH, how I've paid for not doing so.

As others here have said, you'll get over the initial expense once the results occur.

Old chisels are a great source of fantastic steel. Experiment with the quality chisels. Find someone near you who has this stuff; ask to visit and do some hands on evaluation. Feel the difference before you sink the big bucks for top quality. But don't drop $100 bucks on the stuff that will soon just sit idle.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

[Stephen Cherry]

I wouldn't let lack of excessive funds hold you back from anything.

I have some of the old blue chisels, and they are OK and available on ebay, along with all kinds of other chisels. Yard sales, craigslist, just keep your eyes open and look every day and your chisels will come from somewhere. That said, I will look to LN first for hand tool purchaces. I recently bought their spokeshaves, and can tell you I was shaving hair off of my arm in less than 5 minutes.

Nobody is really very interested in rubbing the back of a 1" chisel against a piece of granite tile with sandpaper glued to it for hours on end, but think of it as a character building exercise. The backs need to be flat.

As for learning to use chisels, I would recommend practicing on tenons. Just roughly cut the shoulder and face as best you can with whatever handsaw you have. If you don't have a great saw, even a hacksaw will do it. Then, after you have flattened the back of your chisel so that it is perfectly flat from front to back. and ground it with your sand paper, and honed it sharp enough to shave hair, try to get the feel of cutting the endgrain, and cross grain. There is plenty on the internet about how to do this, and I am certainly not an expert. Maybe just start with your biggest chisel, and put some time in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vhs4hFoLag

[Jim Koepke]

You will likely be able to get by with just one or two chisels to cut dovetails.

You will not be able to make use of a chisel that is wider than the narrowest part of your tails when cutting the waste from the pins You will also be restricted by the space between the tails when clearing the waste there. I find my 1/4" and 3/8" used most for small work. I will not get into my work cutting dovetails in 2X4s and larger stock, that is not something people do every day.

This all depends on the size of your work and your plans. If you want to cut London style dovetails, then maybe an 1/8" and a larger chisel would be in order. I like my pins to be a bit bigger than London style for most things. In case you are not familiar with London style, those are the ones where the fattest part of the pin is barely as thick as the wood. Nice looking, but not as strong bigger pins.

Just for the record my way is to have more chisels than is needed. It sounds like your way is to only have what is needed. Both ways are right and what ever works best for you is the best way to go.

jim

[Russell Sansom]

I'll chip in.
I worked with mediocre chisels for many years and met with good success but it's imperative to know when they're failing, how they're failing, and when they need work.
Early on I took up blacksmithing and had the good luck to hand forge two chisels that far out performed any of the commercial chisels I could afford back then. The hand-made chisels kept an edge much better than the Marples Blues and the 2 Cherries. Anyway, having a couple great chisels gave me something to measure the others by.

So my advice: Buy a couple world-class chisels and get to know them. After that, you can judge further acquisitions in a way you can't possibly right now.

On the question of used chisels. I found that I have to buy three to get one. Even when I know what I'm doing. It doesn't take much of a flaw on the back to cost you many hours of finger-bending, waterstone-consuming work. It's hard to judge a used chisel through pictures and verbal descriptions on EBAY. And until you know your way around, it'll be hard to judge a flea market chisel as well.

[James Taglienti]

matthew,

there are a lot of reviews here on budget chisels that are good. of most of the budget chisels i know of, peoples main complaint is that the handles arent as pretty as they'd like.

vintage chisels could be an option, but we live in a time where machined flatness is next to god, and flat they are NOT. also for the premium vintage names, you could be spending 3/4 what you would on a new LN.

i would avoid the blue handled ones. i have used them a few times at work, from a few different eras, and the edge retention seems pretty poor.

[Chris Griggs]

I agree with James, and everyone else. If you have the money buy a couple good ones. I bought a low end set of chisels (the WR 6 piece set) that were on sale at Woodcraft around the Holidays last year. I was really impressed with them at first as they were well machined and have nice handles, but the more I use them the less I like them. Why? Even though they take an edge just find, they dull after after just a few minutes of work, which is REALLY frustrating when your trying to use them for precise paring on dovetails. By the way, if I were buying just a couple sizes I'd definitely start with 1/4 and 1/2.

[Dave Beauchesne]

Matthew:

I will also chime in - - -

I have the LN 1/8 to 3/4 set ( in Rosewood none the less ) and love them.

That being said, I did a project with 104 tails a couple years ago, I ended up buying a LN 3/16'' chisel just prior, and I used that size the most, by far - I like tight pins BTW.

You can't go wrong buying less ( a couple to start ) of a higher quality to get you going - just get them perfect ( sharpness and flat wise ) and they will not disappoint.

JMHO

Dave Beauchesne

[Sean Hughto]

If you are really pinched for money, vintage is by far the best route to go. They will work fine with just a sharpening. Flattening the back is nice, but hardly crucial.

If you are not really that tight for money, buy two LNs or a couple A. Iles.

[Roger Benton]

FWIW, my humble suggestion is to get the 1/4" and 1/2" sizes in a mid/low price range, use them for a while until you "figure them out", and then pony up for the good stuff.

My first set of chisels were the "4 for $20" set at HD. Between flattening them and teaching myself to sharpen them on sandpaper, grinder, and finally waterstones; experimenting with different bevel angles, 25, 30, 35 degrees; micro bevels, hollow grinds; finding them to be too long for this and too short for that...

well by the time i finally plopped down the cash on a "nice" set i had my sharpening technique down pat, knew exactly what bevel angle i wanted on them, knew exactly what sizes i wanted, how long and what shape i wanted the handles, etc.

and the best part is, i still have the 4 cheap chisels (which i actually have come to like) to use for really rough stuff, like excavating around old nails in reclaimed wood.

So no money wasted, and I only had to set my good tools up once.

Good luck with your dovetailing.

[Scott Stafford]

I agree with Roger. Start out with a few used or cheaper chisels to learn on, sort out the sizes you'll use most and make your mistakes with. Also figure out if you like using chisels. It would be a shame to spend hundreds of dollars just to find out that you don't enjoy it.

Good luck!

Scott in Montana

[Chris M Pyle]

I would suggest you buy 1 of those chisels from LN so you can see what a ready to use chisel looks and feels like.

Then I suggest you google: Bob Smalser chisel rehab, he shows the whole process and makes suggestions on old chisels with good steel.

If you have any flea markets around you, go to them and find old chisels with good handles (rusty is fine) and rehab them.

You will be very happy with what you end up with. I would suggest you spend the rest of your money on sharpening equipment! (doesn't have to be much, joel has sandpaper starter kits for quite cheap and they will put a razor edge on your tools)

Get either an angle honing guide or a protractor (for free-handing visual reference) get to work!! The longer you take to make the decision, the less time you have to do the actual work and increase your skills