Shellac - finishing disaster

[Jim Becker]

so are foam brushes bad for applying shellac?

A good quality brush and good technique are what is required to apply shellac by brushing it. The former is self-explanatory...a great brush will have a "feel" to it that is, well...great...and it will hold the finish for application in a consistent manner. Technique is something that must be learned through practice. Brushing shellac is not the same as brushing varnish and most problems with that form of application are due to one trying to do it like they have with varnish. You have to lay it on quickly with no over brushing outside of a quick and immediate back-swipe or two to level. Don't keep working it...it dries extremely quickly and you have to move on to keep a wet edge. If you miss a small spot, you can get it on the next application. Also, be sure to break any sharp edges while sanding to avoid finish piling up at said edges due to surface tension.

Practice...practice...practice. And Zinsser Seal Coat is completely brushable with out cutting right out of the can. (It sprays beautifully without cutting, too)

That all said, I only brush smaller projects/project components when it comes to shellac. I prefer to spray it for larger surfaces for both speed and to reduce the chance for brushing mistakes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Oh boy am I glad I read this thread. I have a cherry table I'm still fighting with and gave up in disgust. I think I'll reapproach it.

[Dee Gallo]

I just finished doing 10 doors, which have 6 panels, so they presented plenty of places for problems. I got excellent results by doing it in this way:
1. Sand with ROS to 200 grit, vacuum and tack cloth it off
2. Apply shellac cut in half with DNA (I use 1/2 orange, 1/2 clear) with a China Bristle brush, long lines so you keep a wet edge at all times to avoid lines across the grain. BTW- these brushes shed - when using a new one, expect hairs to come out. When this happens, simply push the brush tip forward over the hair and the brush will pick up the stray hair so you can pick it off the brush and keep going. After applying, make fast feather light passes over the getting-slightly-tacky shellac to smooth out any lines.
3. This will dry almost immediately. Give it a second coat without sanding in between.
4. Use only no-fill sandpaper (like from Norton), 400-600-800 grit (increasing in each step) to sand by hand with the grain. It takes barely a swipe to get it super smooth and the paper will not clog. I use a sponge block instead of wood in case it bumps something there will be no scratches.
5. Tack cloth to remove any dust and put another coat of shellac. Repeat until you have 4 coats on. Let dry over night between 2nd, 3rd and 4th coats.
6. Tack and apply a cloth rubbed coat of ZAR Poly-Tung Oil satin finish to preserve the shellac from water damage.
7. Sand it with 800 grit to silky smooth.
8. Spray some household furniture wax on top and buff. It will feel like glass.

I know this sounds like over kill, but you only want to do this once, it is not hard to do and is well worth the deep patina and smooth surface you will achieve. This kind of "old world" technique will make your work glow. Any blotches you think you see in the photo are from the flash, not on the door.

cheers, dee

BTW Ken, this poly-tung oil does a spectacular job on cherry, using the same procedure (3 coats poly, without the shellac).

[Darius Ferlas]

A lot of great information, much of it pointing out what I definitely agree with - lack of experience. So far I can list the following sins I have committed against my shellac finish:

- not sufficiently good brush
- terrible brushing technique
- sanding with a power sander instead of hand sanding with the grain
- using too coarse grid in my attempts to merge overlaps

Right now I am working on the removal of the shellac. Despite copious amounts of alcohol (methyl hydrate 99.9%) the shellac won't just dissolve and vanish with wiping. That might be still some of the varnish I didn't manage to fully remove. I am getting some shellac residue on the white cloth I use to wipe it but some of the shellac shine still seems to remain on the surface. And that DNA dries FAST! I feel like I need to try and use some #0000 steel wool as my wiping rag.

The whole thing is even more depressing because (as one poster noticed) I didn't even have to use shellac on that table top. In part, the process was my test before moving on to water based finishes which, as far as I know, won't give me as much grain pop as oil based varnishes. I wish I conducted my tests on a smaller piece, and on one not at as an advanced stage.

[Neal Clayton]

no, you don't have to use it, but it's worth learning how, imo.

as dee mentioned, there's a kind of 'old world' look to shellac that's not easily replicated.

and the technique with a brush will apply to lots of finishes, not just shellac. so if you get to the point of brushing shellac well, brushing finishes that are easier to work with should then be child's play .

[Darius Ferlas]

Neal, I am definitely going to continue using shellac, despite my bad start. I like the color tone it gives and that "old world" feel to it.

Dee, I think shellac finish on raised panel doors you posted are a bit out of my reach at this point. For now I am happy I finally managed to get rid of my mistakes and applied 2 coats of shellac on the flat surface of my table. I can't fathom I'd be able to come even close to your skills at this stage of my shellac'ing experience.

Thank you all for the precious tips. Every single one of them proved to be of great help.

[Neal Clayton]

doing intricate things, like a door, with a brush and shellac is what will help with other brushed finishes regardless of what they are, that's kinda what i was referring to.

planning where to start and where you're going to wind up when the brush is empty is a lot of that. and that will transfer over to any finish, regardless of what type of finish it is.

shellac is the perfect finish for brush practice, because it's cheap and easy to fix if you make a mistake .

[Dee Gallo]

Neal, you are 100% correct. Shellac gives you an easy way to learn the "feel" of brushing a finish because it will flow, grab and stick at different times, just like other finishes, but in a shorter time frame. Handling a brush has a lot more to it than just dipping and dragging if you want to do it well, but it is not hard to learn.

Unfortunately, the majority of people will try to learn their first lesson on an important piece rather than a practice piece. That's the only mistake they can really make.

dee

[Joe Chritz]

I wish I conducted my tests on a smaller piece, and on one not at as an advanced stage.

You have learned the first and most important "rule" of finishing anything.

School is out for the day, grab a brush and get to work.

FWIW, spraying takes all the work out of shellac.

Joe

[Neal Clayton]

Neal, you are 100% correct. Shellac gives you an easy way to learn the "feel" of brushing a finish because it will flow, grab and stick at different times, just like other finishes, but in a shorter time frame. Handling a brush has a lot more to it than just dipping and dragging if you want to do it well, but it is not hard to learn.

Unfortunately, the majority of people will try to learn their first lesson on an important piece rather than a practice piece. That's the only mistake they can really make.

dee

yep, i agree that it's not hard to learn. only took me a few tries to get the hang of it when i learned, so it can't be brain surgery.