Drying some Ambrosia maple...

[Art Kelly]

I started a thread a while ago http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=143293 and remarked that the stuff was pretty reactive. (My first look-see piece was roughed out in one sitting and placed in a kraft-paper bag with a bunch of the turnings. It was split around the tenon when I checked it a month later.)

I then AnchorSealed the logs over the coat of Kilz that was already there--they were in good shape, so the Kilz must have been helping.

Anyway, I roughed out a second bowl today and slathered the end grain inside and out with AnchorSeal and put it in a bag.

Other than going through the science-experiment weigh-it-every-week process, does anyone have any feel for how long I should give it to stabilize? It's Florida, it's hot, and it's humid.

I'm new to the AnchorSeal method, having gotten by with Kilz on the logs and DNA soaks/paper bags on the rough-outs. This stuff is much more reactive than anything I've done before.

Thanks.
Art

[Dennis Ford]

My climate is not much different than yours. It takes a lot longer for a sealed rough-out to dry vs a brown bagged one. With just the bag, it usually takes 6- 8 weeks for my rough-outs to dry enough for re-turning. The anchorsealed ones take 6 months or more (I don't put those in bags).

[Art Kelly]

I was thinking the bag was at least superfluous if not just wrong. Takes a lot less space on the shelf without the bag. Color it gone.

Thanks for the reply.

A

[David E Keller]

I looked back at the first post about this wood, and it appears that you left that bowl a bit on the thick side during the rough out. I'm not sure if that was an in-process pic or a finished form, but the center tenon may contribute to your troubles as well.

I also avoid bagging my roughouts when using anchor seal. I've gone to using DNA followed by a newspaper wrap for the last few, and I've had pretty good luck so far.

[Cathy Schaewe]

I tried the DNA method on a roughed-out cherry bowl. No luck. Cracks are out of control. I wrapped the outside with brown paper bag, and cling-wrapped the edge and taped it. Cracked in 2 weeks. Now I'm trying anchorseal. Grrr.

[David E Keller]

I tried the DNA method on a roughed-out cherry bowl. No luck. Cracks are out of control. I wrapped the outside with brown paper bag, and cling-wrapped the edge and taped it. Cracked in 2 weeks. Now I'm trying anchorseal. Grrr.

No cherry around here. Grrr.

[Art Kelly]

I figure I'm living on the edge with this wood. The butt of the tree is only about 10", so the pith stays. There are some ambrosia cherry bowls pictured on another forum turned about the same way to about the same size, so maybe there's hope.

If everything fails, I can make a LOT of bottle stoppers. I have 5 feet of it left in four logs.

[Gene Hintze]

It has been hot and humid here in NC as well and I have noticed more warping and splitting in some roughed out bowls I have been drying. My solution has been to move the rough outs indoors, pile them on the dining room floor (my wife is very understanding) and let them dry in a more climate controlled environment. So the process from start to finish is - rough out the bowl, soak in a DNA bath for at least 24 hours, take bowls out of DNA and let them air dry for 1 to 2 hours, stuff several bowls in a paper grocery bag, roll up the top of the bag and place on the dining room floor. When things cool down this fall I'll just go back to drying them on a shelf in the garage and then we can have guests over for dinner again.

[John Hart]

No cherry around here. Grrr.

Not for long.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I got cherry. Yep a whole bunch. Have turned 6 bowls out of cherry, painted with anchorseal and 3 weeks later no cracks.

[Jeff Willard]

I tried the DNA method on a roughed-out cherry bowl. No luck. Cracks are out of control. I wrapped the outside with brown paper bag, and cling-wrapped the edge and taped it. Cracked in 2 weeks. Now I'm trying anchorseal. Grrr.

I took a good sized limb off of a cherry back in April. Rough turned and soaked in dish soap for 24+ hours, and left to dry unprotected. I've experienced minimal degrade. In fact, out of about 15 bowls, ranging in size from 9" dia. down to 3" dia., I haven't lost the first one. Just some very minor checks on two or three of them.

[John Hart]

One thing that is rarely brought up in the many threads related to drying, cracking, DNA, Anchorseal, etc...is the nature of the wood itself.

Try to keep in mind that each species has its own quirks, and that every tree within that species has its unique character that lends itself to different behavior. Understanding those intricate qualities, even at a glance, is key to your success.

Cherry, for instance, loves to crack. The probability that a piece of cherry will crack, may not be in your control. It could be related to how the tree fell, or how close to the pith the blank was harvested. If you cut a cherry log, and watch the pith, you will see cracks form within the first minute or so. Leave it unprotected, and those cracks will expand into the usable wood within a couple hours. Micro cracks that you don't see, will have formed, and you won't see the negative effects until much later.

So, what I'm saying is that there are a whole grunch of omitted variables that go into, "why did my bowl crack?" or "how can I stop it?"

Sometimes, those variables aren't available to put into the equation, and you just have to find out later....While others, you can see at a glance.

Ambrosia maple is some pretty stable stuff. But certain characterizations near the exposed endgrain, will lend themselves to problems. Watch those characterizations. A clear grain will probably be pretty stable...but any kind of figure...near the exposed engrain...will cause an imbalance due to the varying rates of shrinkage during the drying process.

The reason the various dessicant methods seem to work (like DNA) is because it is taking some water out of the equation and causing a more balanced drying process. Paperbags and other types of coverings, slow the process down so to allow the varying characters in the wood to move slowly and with togetherness.

You want your wood to dry...so sealing completely is counter-productive. Having your wood in a humid environment isn't necessarily a bad thing...but remember that you do not live in a gravity-free environment, and one or more parts of the bowl will be in contact with some surface...a shelf...a bag...a box...where the humidity at that point is different than the rest of the bowl.

We are turners....we generally don't like clear grain. We like figure, and dazzling colors...knots and voids...and little burly spots. With those desires...comes a price.

Sorry for the long post. Just wanted to say that it might be a bit more complicated.

[Tom Sherman]

good info John, and good of you to remind us all.

[David Woodruff]

I am one of those that just want the thing to dry slowly without cracking. So I get into a roughing/ hollowing mode; turn a number of pieces(also hollowing), place them into a large plastic garbage can, with lid, and forget them for a month or two or three. No set time. The spalted pieces will continue to spalt with some amazing results. Most pieces after a month looks like they have grown hair. I don't put anything on them like wax, anchorseal, etc. I will occasionally take them out spray off the crud and do it again. They will dry to some point of stabilization for the 2nd turning. It becomes an experiennce judgement thing. Maple, Redwood dry farly quick, harder woods take longer, Walnut takes forever. You get the idea. There is bound moisture and non-bound. The bound moisture is inside the cells and requires a degree of cell wall collapse for this moisture to eventually dry. I used to do all the stuff with only sealing the outside, turning the piece upside down, hopefully drying from the inside out. It wasn't much fun so I quit and did the trash can thing.